5 ms·

Airbnb doesn't service 'demand for housing', it artificially decreases supply for the benefit of tourists.

rottencupcakes 3y ago
Why do you call that artificial? Isn’t the market clearing amount of housing when both long and short term needs are met? Are you against all tourism or travel?
- trgn 3y ago
  but tourist could use a hotel, no? landlords are using actual houses to service tourists, whereas a new hotel would do just fine as well and not take 100s of units out the rental market. If housing affordability is a function of supply/demand, then lowering demand - e.g. by not allowing tourists to stay in houses that could be rented out - should certainly help just as well as increasing supply.
  - Kalium 3y ago
    Depending on what you're doing, a hotel can be a poor fit for your needs. I've spent weeks in hotels at once, and for me it got absolutely miserable quickly. A studio apartment instead was much, much better.
    - trgn 3y ago
      fair enough. but that seems more like a furnished unit business type rental thing than for tourism. i don't think this is the bulk of airbnb usage (maybe it is). plus, hotels are starting to accommodate that more too, extended stay hotels, they have very commodious rooms.
      - Kalium 3y ago
        It's my experience that housing exists on a spectrum, rather than being strictly for business or tourism or long-term living. Any space that could rent furnished apartments by the week to business travelers could also be renting unfurnished by the year to residents. I've seen hotels turned into apartments and the reverse. Housing, like money, is often fungible. It's not something we should expect to strictly classify away into wildly different categories in every case, even if this is pretty convenient from a governance perspective.
        trgn 3y ago
        I am a 100% in agreement with that statement, and I speak from experience, seeing how I used and have rented out an apartment in the past. But in actual reality, very specifically, airbnb has destroyed the character of entire neighborhoods, pushed up prices locally (if not regionally), all the while having completely acceptable alternatives for the majority of its use (ie. tourism). So, yes, there is a spectrum in how housing is deployed, but there is also a very clear negative impact of airbnb, very specifically, in that frictionless, low risk model of renting out housing. I think that needs to be addressed, not from first principles wrt what is the nature of housing etc. etc., but very pragmatically, the gig-economy airbnb, how to channel that correctly.
    - bredren 3y ago
      It was better for the tourist.
- FabHK 3y ago
  First, a hotel might well be more efficient (in terms of area used per tourist) than apartments. Second, by converting housing from long-term rentals to short-term rentals, supply curves are shifted, resulting in decreased prices for tourists and increased for local renters, thus a welfare transfer (consumer surplus) from locals to tourists.
j45 3y ago
More of a reallocation If a small inventory can break supply even worse that’s an under supply issue not just demand or Airbnb. Markets will prioritize around profitable transactions.
asdff 3y ago
It depends. I have used it for short term lease between long term lease in the same area before. No other landlord lets you rent for a month they all want you locked in for a year. Its more expensive for sure but its a lot cheaper than breaking a year lease to rent someplace for a month.
bredren 3y ago
And the landlords. If the financial and risk incentives to do short term housing did not outweigh standard rentals landlords would not Airbnb. If Airbnb was not allowed, or severely restricted in residential neighborhoods it would reduce options for holding onto a house that could be sold for single family housing. Landlords take advantage of loose enforcement of Airbnb permitting. I have seen a landlord create a fake living space to get a permit they should not have had first hand. There is a site that uses data to indicate these bad actors working on a much greater scale than this.
1123581321 3y ago
This suggests appeal to visitors as one of the root problems alongside housing supply. Building apartments in place of a demolished popular monument or paved-over natural wonder would solve both problems.

Why do you call that artificial? Isn’t the market clearing amount of housing when both long and short term needs are met? Are you against all tourism or travel?

trgn 3y ago
but tourist could use a hotel, no? landlords are using actual houses to service tourists, whereas a new hotel would do just fine as well and not take 100s of units out the rental market. If housing affordability is a function of supply/demand, then lowering demand - e.g. by not allowing tourists to stay in houses that could be rented out - should certainly help just as well as increasing supply.
- Kalium 3y ago
  Depending on what you're doing, a hotel can be a poor fit for your needs. I've spent weeks in hotels at once, and for me it got absolutely miserable quickly. A studio apartment instead was much, much better.
  - trgn 3y ago
    fair enough. but that seems more like a furnished unit business type rental thing than for tourism. i don't think this is the bulk of airbnb usage (maybe it is). plus, hotels are starting to accommodate that more too, extended stay hotels, they have very commodious rooms.
    - Kalium 3y ago
      It's my experience that housing exists on a spectrum, rather than being strictly for business or tourism or long-term living. Any space that could rent furnished apartments by the week to business travelers could also be renting unfurnished by the year to residents. I've seen hotels turned into apartments and the reverse. Housing, like money, is often fungible. It's not something we should expect to strictly classify away into wildly different categories in every case, even if this is pretty convenient from a governance perspective.
      - trgn 3y ago
        I am a 100% in agreement with that statement, and I speak from experience, seeing how I used and have rented out an apartment in the past. But in actual reality, very specifically, airbnb has destroyed the character of entire neighborhoods, pushed up prices locally (if not regionally), all the while having completely acceptable alternatives for the majority of its use (ie. tourism). So, yes, there is a spectrum in how housing is deployed, but there is also a very clear negative impact of airbnb, very specifically, in that frictionless, low risk model of renting out housing. I think that needs to be addressed, not from first principles wrt what is the nature of housing etc. etc., but very pragmatically, the gig-economy airbnb, how to channel that correctly.
  - bredren 3y ago
    It was better for the tourist.
FabHK 3y ago
First, a hotel might well be more efficient (in terms of area used per tourist) than apartments. Second, by converting housing from long-term rentals to short-term rentals, supply curves are shifted, resulting in decreased prices for tourists and increased for local renters, thus a welfare transfer (consumer surplus) from locals to tourists.

j45 3y ago

More of a reallocation If a small inventory can break supply even worse that’s an under supply issue not just demand or Airbnb. Markets will prioritize around profitable transactions.

asdff 3y ago

It depends. I have used it for short term lease between long term lease in the same area before. No other landlord lets you rent for a month they all want you locked in for a year. Its more expensive for sure but its a lot cheaper than breaking a year lease to rent someplace for a month.

bredren 3y ago

And the landlords. If the financial and risk incentives to do short term housing did not outweigh standard rentals landlords would not Airbnb. If Airbnb was not allowed, or severely restricted in residential neighborhoods it would reduce options for holding onto a house that could be sold for single family housing. Landlords take advantage of loose enforcement of Airbnb permitting. I have seen a landlord create a fake living space to get a permit they should not have had first hand. There is a site that uses data to indicate these bad actors working on a much greater scale than this.

1123581321 3y ago

This suggests appeal to visitors as one of the root problems alongside housing supply. Building apartments in place of a demolished popular monument or paved-over natural wonder would solve both problems.