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I have to say, speaking as someone that is generally very happy to live in Apple's walled garden for my phone and couldn't really give a toss about Tim Sweeney'

I have to say, speaking as someone that is generally very happy to live in Apple's walled garden for my phone and couldn't really give a toss about Tim Sweeney's crusade, this most recent continuation of the Epic spat seems like a pretty spectacular own goal from Apple. I can't think of any non-emotive motivation for their actions, and I can see plenty of large downsides.

classified 3y ago
My guess would be greed and totalitarian power fantasies as motivations.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
>I can't think of any non-emotive motivation for their actions, and I can see plenty of large downsides. Epic wants to play the long game. They want the Epic Games store on PC and mobile and Apple is half of mobile. Having an opportunity to become the Steam of mobile is a very valuable proposition, especially given that IOS was apparently less than 10% of Fortnite income. I see it as the opposeite of emotive; it's a cold calculation playing a very long game with hopes of market capture in a scene where no one else seems to care about premium games (including Epic. But who knows how that will turn out over the decade).
- aeurielesn 3y ago
  I always thought Epic wanted to push Apple's button until they showed their true face which, by the way, it seems to have worked wonders on EU upon DMA.
  - pavlov 3y ago
    We should be thankful that somebody stuck out their neck and paid the price to challenge the world’s richest corporation this way, regardless of Epic’s motivations. Like Google in its past “don’t do evil” life, Apple still strongly believes that they are the good guys by default, simply by existing. That kind of culture can make a corporation oblivious to the influence they’re actually having.
- pseudocomposer 3y ago
  Of course… what’s to stop Valve letting Epic spend all this money on lawyers getting the market set up, and then simply making Steam, with its immense market share, developer support, and positive consumer sentiment, the Steam of iOS? AFAIK the only reason anyone uses Epic Games Store is for Fortnite. Can Epic really count on that to carry them? It’s been a lasting fad for sure, but all fads end.
  - IggleSniggle 3y ago
    Fads end, but some have real lasting power, like LEGO or Minecraft. I haven't played Fortnite but from what I know of it, it may have similar lasting power.
  - tcbawo 3y ago
    Judging by my nine year old, Epic will be doing fine for some time. They have an ecosystem of other tangentially related games available, including a Lego RPG-type game all built on top of their v-bucks payment system and their account/social network.
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    Nothing. Having multiple competing stores will be good for the market.
  - lukeschlather 3y ago
    Fortnite's annual revenue was $6 billion last year. Assume operating an app store costs $10 million/year/platform they only need to sell $30 million of Fortnite to break even relative to the world where they're giving Apple 30% of their profits. They're not "competing" with Steam they're doing in-house publishing, which likely saves tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars which would otherwise be free profit for Apple.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >what’s to stop Valve letting Epic spend all this money on lawyers getting the market set up, and then simply making Steam I'd love to know just as much as you do. Valve just hasn't shown much interest in mobile ever. Even the few games they have on mobile are older games that Nvidia decided to port for them once upon a time. They've shown interest in Linux and VR, but never mobile. If that demand does exist, and Valve just doesn't want to invest, I can see where Epic wants to come in. >an Epic really count on that to carry them? It’s been a lasting fad for sure, but all fads end. I'm not sure. It's a risk but there's multiple ways to approach it. I imagine such a model would have a mix of large f2p games that can advertise itself and premium games to try and attract core gamers or those who do not want to be nickle and dimed by f2p games. But at the same time that justifies the attempt. Fortnite probably won't last forever, so the need to find a more stable financial stream while they have the money flowing in makes sense.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  I think you misread the comment, no? The comment isn't about Epic, it's about Apple being temperamental & emotional & digging themselves into deeper and deeper trouble.
dann0 3y ago
I have sympathy for Apple. They are essentially being forced to do business with a known bad actor, and that bad actor has continually demonstrated a pattern of behaviour that is unreliable and untrustworthy. But Apple really should have handled this better. Being made to look like the bad guys against Epic seems impossible, but they’ve done it. I guess private toll operators can’t prevent repeat drunk drivers using their roads, even if they do the same “trust us, just because” nonsense Sweeney has written.
- arlcode 3y ago
  In a post DMA world they are forcing themselves to do business with Epic. Their restrictions are the only reason why Epic can do what they are doing. If a developer account was not necessary to publish anything on iOS no one would care. Tim Sweeney can (or hopes he can) get away with it because the DMA really doesn't care about feeling and limits the contractual freedom of the gatekeeper (aka Apple) at least in the spirit and quite likely also in the letter of the law after this goes to court (or if Apple folds of course)
- yxhuvud 3y ago
  The stance of EU is clearly that you should not have to do business with Apple to publish to the iPhone. As such, no one forces Apple to do any business with Epic.
- fennecbutt 3y ago
  Apple is a bad actor lmao. They're selling houses and then setting up a bouncer at the door of the house you own to turn away people you invited, that Apple doesn't like and not giving you a choice in the matter.

classified 3y ago

My guess would be greed and totalitarian power fantasies as motivations.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

>I can't think of any non-emotive motivation for their actions, and I can see plenty of large downsides. Epic wants to play the long game. They want the Epic Games store on PC and mobile and Apple is half of mobile. Having an opportunity to become the Steam of mobile is a very valuable proposition, especially given that IOS was apparently less than 10% of Fortnite income. I see it as the opposeite of emotive; it's a cold calculation playing a very long game with hopes of market capture in a scene where no one else seems to care about premium games (including Epic. But who knows how that will turn out over the decade).

aeurielesn 3y ago
I always thought Epic wanted to push Apple's button until they showed their true face which, by the way, it seems to have worked wonders on EU upon DMA.
- pavlov 3y ago
  We should be thankful that somebody stuck out their neck and paid the price to challenge the world’s richest corporation this way, regardless of Epic’s motivations. Like Google in its past “don’t do evil” life, Apple still strongly believes that they are the good guys by default, simply by existing. That kind of culture can make a corporation oblivious to the influence they’re actually having.
pseudocomposer 3y ago
Of course… what’s to stop Valve letting Epic spend all this money on lawyers getting the market set up, and then simply making Steam, with its immense market share, developer support, and positive consumer sentiment, the Steam of iOS? AFAIK the only reason anyone uses Epic Games Store is for Fortnite. Can Epic really count on that to carry them? It’s been a lasting fad for sure, but all fads end.
- IggleSniggle 3y ago
  Fads end, but some have real lasting power, like LEGO or Minecraft. I haven't played Fortnite but from what I know of it, it may have similar lasting power.
- tcbawo 3y ago
  Judging by my nine year old, Epic will be doing fine for some time. They have an ecosystem of other tangentially related games available, including a Lego RPG-type game all built on top of their v-bucks payment system and their account/social network.
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  Nothing. Having multiple competing stores will be good for the market.
- lukeschlather 3y ago
  Fortnite's annual revenue was $6 billion last year. Assume operating an app store costs $10 million/year/platform they only need to sell $30 million of Fortnite to break even relative to the world where they're giving Apple 30% of their profits. They're not "competing" with Steam they're doing in-house publishing, which likely saves tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars which would otherwise be free profit for Apple.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >what’s to stop Valve letting Epic spend all this money on lawyers getting the market set up, and then simply making Steam I'd love to know just as much as you do. Valve just hasn't shown much interest in mobile ever. Even the few games they have on mobile are older games that Nvidia decided to port for them once upon a time. They've shown interest in Linux and VR, but never mobile. If that demand does exist, and Valve just doesn't want to invest, I can see where Epic wants to come in. >an Epic really count on that to carry them? It’s been a lasting fad for sure, but all fads end. I'm not sure. It's a risk but there's multiple ways to approach it. I imagine such a model would have a mix of large f2p games that can advertise itself and premium games to try and attract core gamers or those who do not want to be nickle and dimed by f2p games. But at the same time that justifies the attempt. Fortnite probably won't last forever, so the need to find a more stable financial stream while they have the money flowing in makes sense.
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
I think you misread the comment, no? The comment isn't about Epic, it's about Apple being temperamental & emotional & digging themselves into deeper and deeper trouble.

dann0 3y ago

I have sympathy for Apple. They are essentially being forced to do business with a known bad actor, and that bad actor has continually demonstrated a pattern of behaviour that is unreliable and untrustworthy. But Apple really should have handled this better. Being made to look like the bad guys against Epic seems impossible, but they’ve done it. I guess private toll operators can’t prevent repeat drunk drivers using their roads, even if they do the same “trust us, just because” nonsense Sweeney has written.

arlcode 3y ago
In a post DMA world they are forcing themselves to do business with Epic. Their restrictions are the only reason why Epic can do what they are doing. If a developer account was not necessary to publish anything on iOS no one would care. Tim Sweeney can (or hopes he can) get away with it because the DMA really doesn't care about feeling and limits the contractual freedom of the gatekeeper (aka Apple) at least in the spirit and quite likely also in the letter of the law after this goes to court (or if Apple folds of course)
yxhuvud 3y ago
The stance of EU is clearly that you should not have to do business with Apple to publish to the iPhone. As such, no one forces Apple to do any business with Epic.
fennecbutt 3y ago
Apple is a bad actor lmao. They're selling houses and then setting up a bouncer at the door of the house you own to turn away people you invited, that Apple doesn't like and not giving you a choice in the matter.