5 ms·
Don't forget the contribution and sacrifice of Ukraine
by factorialboy 3y ago
Don't forget the contribution and sacrifice of Ukraine
- s_dev 3y agoOr the blackmailing by Hungary and Turkey.
- jajko 3y agoIts funny with Hungary, Orban is such an incompetent ruler that currently Hungary is paying way above market prices for gas from Russia. So much for being friends with benefits with russia. You can see how it all is a series of really not that smart moves for Hungary for a long time, borderline treason. And one point generally - please lets stop calling whats happening in Ukraine in any other way than War. putin's war - its a perfect name I'll keep repeating till it sticks around, or I'll die trying. Its relatively personal to me, my home country (former Czechoslovakia) was basically enslaved by russian cough cough soviet forces for decades, people shot or electrocuted when trying to escape (around 500 recorded officially), tens of thousands murdered in other indirect ways (gulags or uranium mines with no ticket back, or just beaten to death in some cold dungeon). I see basically 0 change from that russia to modern one and how it values things like human life, freedom etc. It looked briefly better, much better, but those times are over for good and russia is firmly back at cold/not so cold war with whole western world. Currently trying to subvert quite a few places in Africa. I hope western 3-letter agencies are few steps ahead.
- ProjectArcturis 3y agoThis comment really illustrates the hollowness of the "NATO expanded too aggressively" claim. NATO didn't force any of these ex-Soviet countries to join. They ran to join NATO as soon as they could. They'd experienced living with the Russian boot on their neck, and they were eager to join a collective security organization to prevent it from ever happening again.
- RajT88 3y ago> This comment really illustrates the hollowness of the "NATO expanded too aggressively" claim. In the US, only wingnuts and "useful idiots" (really the same group) are repeating this talking point.
- tim333 3y agoMearshiemer got quite a favourable hearing on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30559136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30559136
- RajT88 3y agoGood lord. I was not aware of this guy before, but his position seems to be akin to suggesting a woman deserved to be raped because of how she was dressed. Even people pretty forgiving of his essays acknowledge he's habitually at odds with basic facts and history. Not a wingnut, per se, but on the same spectrum of people divorced from reality. It's too bad as well, because US foreign policy is deserving of more scrutiny than it gets, and it gets a fair amount.
- tim333 3y agoI have mixed feelings on him. On the one hand it is a bit - woman should expect to be raped because of how she was dressed. On the other hand he's predicted Putin/Russia's action quite accurately. I think he errs a bit in suggesting such behaviour is normal for all great powers. The Americans and Chinese while imperfect aren't that bad. And the EU if you can call it a great power does nothing like that - the rape pillage invade stuff. Though of course a couple of centuries ago Europe was invading all over the place. It goes to show these things can change. Probably with Russia we need to make things enough of a pain the the neck for them that they'll see the wisdom of changing eventually also.
- RajT88 3y agoHe's said in a few different pieces that Putin 100% does not want to ingest Ukraine into Russia, that he's only interested in "lopping off its limbs" and keeping it out of NATO. Which is at odds with what Putin has said many times, that Ukraine is not a real nation, but a part of Russia, and Kyiv historically was central to the Russian empire. It's really clear that Putin wants all of Ukraine, not just bits of it. Putin has almost (but not quite) come out and said it. It's an open question on whether Putin would stop with Ukraine (we'll find out only if he takes Ukraine), but there's things he's said which hint that he won't. > On the other hand he's predicted Putin/Russia's action quite accurately. So far. At some point, he's going to have to reckon with all the stuff Putin has said about his ambitions that he ignored.
- usrusr 3y agoPutin's war isn't a useful term though, because there are so many of them. Regarding change from "that Russia" to the modern one, I'm afraid there has been change, to the worse. The Soviet incarnation of the empire was at least nominally bound to the progressive ideas of socialism (which is completely orthogonal to wether those ideas are workable or not), whereas the current incarnation is openly worshipping the fascist ideas of strength and domination, and the struggle to get there. When Russians claim that they don't understand why someone would willingly ally with others who don't prove worthy by actively coercing them, chances are it's genuine, they really don't understand. Sometimes I wonder if their language even has a word for friendship based on equality that is separate from an asymmetric allegiance based on status gradient. Perhaps all the non-gradient terminology was gobbled up by socialist ideology and now the very idea of peers is out, except where seeing it through the socialist lense still fits?
- reducesuffering 3y agoFor more understanding of this difference in Russian mindset, see this thread from Kamil Galeev, a Russian independent researcher: https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1761855753290191129 https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1761855753290191129
- vajdagabor 3y agoOrban and his team don't work for Hungary. They work for themselves (for a small group around Orban's family), trying to take out as much money and power from every opportunity as they can. This might explain purchasing the gas on higher price (and a huge amount of other controversial deals) and preferring partnerships with corrupt governments and politicians. It's all about business and power. There are good meticulously researched articles about their businesses here (one of the few remaining independent, reliable sources in Hungary): https://www.direkt36.hu/en/ https://www.direkt36.hu/en/
- hermitcrab 3y agoThe 'Empire' podcast ran a series about Russia: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/empire/id1639561921 https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/empire/id1639561921 It is clear from listening to the podcast that Russia has always been nightmare to live in (unless you perhaps belonged to a tiny elite) or have as a neighbour. Serfdom wasn't abolished until 1861.
- vajdagabor 3y agoBlackmailing by Orban and his party, not Hungary.
- xdennis 3y agoFair enough, but he's been in power for 18 years (1998-2002, 2010-present). He couldn't do that without widespread and lasting support.
- vajdagabor 3y agoNo, people supported them, but that is because democracy was hacked. Hungary is not a democracy anymore (it's a hibrid regime[1]). The biggest issue is that the majority of the media is controlled by the government. Also they own jurisdiction and have been gradually rewritten the constitution. Most people who support this regime do that because they believe the propaganda. Many people I know have been bitterly trying to tell their family members that they are watching / listening propaganda (unsuccessfully, for years). Most of Orban's supporters don't know much about politics, they just want to live their lives, so they believe whatever is on TV, radio, online media, posters, etc. For many it is very hard to see what is true and what is lie. But there are many, many people here who don't like this and want a change. The country is in a state where positive change towards democracy is really hard at the moment, many of us still want to believe it is possible. By the way, we could see this madness around the world in the past years: Brexit, Trump, Bolsonaro… many people can be led by their nose. Not just in Hungary. I really whish if people would learn from Hungary's mistakes, and don't let the same thing to happen in their countries. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_regime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_regime
- t0bia_s 3y agoOr maybe people just agree with this politics. Clearly, you and your source of information don't.
- vajdagabor 3y ago
- mellutussa 3y agoSlava Ukraini!
- throwrus344 3y ago[dead]
- pimlottc 3y ago> I humbly bow before the Ukraine. Note that “Ukraine” is now preferred to “the Ukraine”; the latter term was used in Soviet times to diminish its autonomy by implying it was just a region of the USSR.
- wnoise 3y agoThis is widely believed, and of course Ukrainians prefer no article, and I'm happy to accede to their preferences, just as with their preferred transliteration of Kyiv. But the theory that this has any impact on how English speakers view sovereignty is also completely bunk. While English does indeed use "the" for some geographical regions and features (but not universally; English rarely is so simple), in international contexts and sub-regions, that's swamped by more salient examples. Look right there at your use of "the" USSR. We don't talk about "the Scotland" and "the England" as part of "United Kingdom", nor about "the California" and "the Texas" as purely internal regions of "United States", but quite the reverse, reserving. In keeping with groups of smaller units, there's also the EU. There are also many examples of full names that include qualifying adjectives that take "the" -- i.e. the Central African Republic, the Dominican Republic, and historically the Czech Republic (now Czechia is preferred, of course). There are also, of course, countries named after geographical features that traditionally do have the definite article, but this is rarely taken as a slight against their sovereignty or an accusation that they're not a real country: the Ivory Coast, The Netherlands, many, many island nations. And why would the Russians even think to use articles to make this distinction? Neither language even has a definite article! There is a history of using different prepositions in these languages ("in" vs "on", roughly) which does have this suggestion, but it really doesn't parallel English usage of articles.
- euroderf 3y ago> “the Ukraine”; the latter term was used in Soviet times to diminish its autonomy by implying it was just a region of the USSR. Source ?