3 ms·

How does the amount of energy necessary to recharge the vehicles compare to the amount of energy required to run the additional industry?

mschuster91 3y ago
The idea is to a) use V2G vehicles over a day / night cycle to "buffer out" gaps from renewables and b) incentivize high-demand consumers during low-production times to shut down by the power of the free market. Point a) has already been explained by GP, but b) is the interesting one. Right now there's barely any incentive for large consumers such as aluminium smelters to shut down or limit consumption during the night (where there is no solar energy), the only incentive these kind of consumers get is a premium for short-term load shedding. We would, as a society, need far less of generation capacity buildout if we can get the large consumers to drastically reduce their consumption at night.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  But don’t we want them running at night today vs during the day when more power is used. Scheduling those work shifts at the smelter is going to be annoying. “Sorry Bob, the power market is spiking now, you’ll need to come in 8 hours later to start your shift.” We can solve this problem simply by closing all our plants and importing more aluminum from Japan.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Sure but you can predict that there will be no solar power available at night.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      We can also predict that higher AC use correlates with more solar power.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Solar power is greatest at noon. I think Bob would be thrilled to be told that he will be required to work during the day rather than at night.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Other energy uses peak during the day, like AC in the summer.
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        Not enough to compensate. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56880 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56880
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        California is the wrong state to look at AC usage (most people live in big metro areas where AC isn't even ubiquitous, nor needs to be).
        bryanlarsen 3y ago
        Which is exactly why California has the highest growth in Air Conditioning usage. Most places were at 90%+ a decade ago; not much room to grow. OTOH SF has grown from 30% to 50%.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        A lot of that growth is just people moving to heat pumps that can do either, and are perfect for mild climates. California does have a nice advantage in that it has lots of solar near populated areas that have mild climates (well, that mainly means the LA area).
- delfinom 3y ago
  >. Right now there's barely any incentive for large consumers such as aluminium smelters to shut down or limit consumption during the night You cannot shut down smelters period. They must be kept running or the entire smelter has to be rebuilt taking months.
  - falserum 3y ago
    This point seems to be overlooked very often.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    You cannot shut down smelters completely, but AFAICT you can idle them, substantially reducing their power requirements.

mschuster91 3y ago

The idea is to a) use V2G vehicles over a day / night cycle to "buffer out" gaps from renewables and b) incentivize high-demand consumers during low-production times to shut down by the power of the free market. Point a) has already been explained by GP, but b) is the interesting one. Right now there's barely any incentive for large consumers such as aluminium smelters to shut down or limit consumption during the night (where there is no solar energy), the only incentive these kind of consumers get is a premium for short-term load shedding. We would, as a society, need far less of generation capacity buildout if we can get the large consumers to drastically reduce their consumption at night.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
But don’t we want them running at night today vs during the day when more power is used. Scheduling those work shifts at the smelter is going to be annoying. “Sorry Bob, the power market is spiking now, you’ll need to come in 8 hours later to start your shift.” We can solve this problem simply by closing all our plants and importing more aluminum from Japan.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  Sure but you can predict that there will be no solar power available at night.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    We can also predict that higher AC use correlates with more solar power.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Solar power is greatest at noon. I think Bob would be thrilled to be told that he will be required to work during the day rather than at night.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Other energy uses peak during the day, like AC in the summer.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      Not enough to compensate. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56880 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56880
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        California is the wrong state to look at AC usage (most people live in big metro areas where AC isn't even ubiquitous, nor needs to be).
        bryanlarsen 3y ago
        Which is exactly why California has the highest growth in Air Conditioning usage. Most places were at 90%+ a decade ago; not much room to grow. OTOH SF has grown from 30% to 50%.
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        A lot of that growth is just people moving to heat pumps that can do either, and are perfect for mild climates. California does have a nice advantage in that it has lots of solar near populated areas that have mild climates (well, that mainly means the LA area).
delfinom 3y ago
>. Right now there's barely any incentive for large consumers such as aluminium smelters to shut down or limit consumption during the night You cannot shut down smelters period. They must be kept running or the entire smelter has to be rebuilt taking months.
- falserum 3y ago
  This point seems to be overlooked very often.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  You cannot shut down smelters completely, but AFAICT you can idle them, substantially reducing their power requirements.