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On DMA eve, Google whines, Apple sounds alarms, and TikTok wants out
- jrepinc 3y agoIf only we could get rid of all of them, That would be awesome. The less GAFAM/BigTech feudalist the better.
- Razengan 3y agoLet's get rid of all the things they produced too. No iPhones, no Android, no Google Search. Let's go back to 1983.
- MiguelX413 3y agoI unironically advocate for this.
- ralphstodomingo 3y agoI don't think the tech advances these companies made were irrevocably tied to the anti-competition practices. If anything, if we made it easier and cheaper for anyone to build on top of the things already existing, we could have had much more.
- cangeroo 3y agoAbsolutely. But they also monopolized the market and prevented alternatives. DMA is about fair markets. Without Google, Apple, or Tiktok, we'd have other platforms. Maybe fairer platforms? It's not like there'd be zero innovation in every category without those companies.
- fsflover 3y ago> Without Google, Apple, or Tiktok, we'd have other platforms. Maybe fairer platforms? Yes, GNU/Linux phones are strongly disadvantaged at the moment due to the duopoly. Sent from my Librem 5.
- fkyoureadthedoc 3y agoEven as a desktop os Linux in general as a windows/Mac OS replacement for the every day person is strongly disadvantaged by being a shit tier user experience. I've tried to switch several times for laptop OS and just gave up. Even if everything was easy and solid, and it had the same abysmal trackpad support it has now, I wouldn't use it. But basically every facet of the experience is like that trackpad support. I don't even want to think about what a ghetto the mobile experience probably is.
- vladms 3y agoAfter having used Linux for multiple years I had to use macOS (and later Windows) and I found the experience shitty as well (ex: no system way to manage programs, strange multi-user support, annoying forced updates, more complex to setup remote connectivity and others). When my parents computer broke I put a Linux on it, and for them works great (just browsing and occasionally printing a document). Sure, if something is great for you stick to it, but assuming things about "every day persons" seems exaggerated. I also heard macOS <=> Windows switching experience is "bad" so for me it is more "what people are used to/how much they want to improve" than an inherent "quality".
- bigbillheck 3y ago> Let's go back to 1983 When exactly do you think google was founded?
- meragrin_ 3y agoWhat about Microsoft and Apple? Are they not included in "GAFAM/BigTech feudalist"?
- jjulius 3y ago>No iPhones, no Android, no Google Search. You know what? That actually sounds pretty cool. Edit: I'm hardly one to care about karma, but it's funny that I'm getting downvoted just for thinking that that idea is neat. Differences of opinion are okay, no? If there's something you don't like about something I say, I'm open to feedback rather than silent disapproval. :) After all, what's so terrible about thinking that life without smartphones and Google Search wouldn't be so bad? Haven't a sizeable chunk of us posting here lived without those three things even existing for a good chunk of our lives?
- MiguelX413 3y agoYeah, I've unironically been advocating for the same for years now.
- smhenderson 3y agoI don't know, it's not as if they have done nothing that benefits society, that we all use daily, forgetting how much of it would not be possible without the contributions and innovation from these companies. I am absolutely not surprised by the whining and am in no way giving these companies a pass. Something absolutely must be done to better protect user data and privacy. But babies and bath water come to mind when I read comments like yours.
- rapnie 3y agoIt is a bit tangential, but this article [0] by Baldur Bjarnason sheds a light on the EU's perspective in crafting regulations such as the DMA, and how that seems to be largely misunderstood by the big US tech companies. [0] https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2024/facing-reality-in-the-eu-and-tech/ https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2024/facing-reality-in-the-e...
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago>Any time you see two entities of similar size fight, bet on the one that thinks it’s fighting for its life. yeah sure, but also bet on the one that can pass legislation regarding the other one.
- asimpletune 3y agoThis was a great read. One problem that I have, at least, is that I think the eu is not understanding the tech on this one and actually violating their own, all important, single market principle. With the apple all store, there actually was just one market and a set of standards and regulations that governed it. Now, there will be x many standards. The experience on the foo app will depend on what App Store it was purchased in. If the eu had taken a more ambitious route then I could see this actually working for apple, who operates, imo opinion, under the principle of balancing what is best for the customer against what the developer can tolerate. This has created the apple ecosystem as the only one that is profitable, precisely for the same reason the author argues the eu seeks to regulate businesses. So by more ambitious I meant there needs to be a convention that governs technology along a framework akin to a technology user’s bill of rights. No stealing information, no antipatterns, cancel subscriptions with a single click, etc…
- rchaud 3y agoBig Tech depends on you buying their hardware (iOS/Android/Mac/Windows) to pull you into their 'ecosystem of services': messaging, payments, streaming video and of course, targeted advertisements. We need some kind of ecosystem-agnostic hardware vendor that provides/supports: - a Linux-based GUI OS with minimal telemetry - Web Apps unencumbered by the whims of monopolistic browser vendors - a RISC-V desktop-class processor (one day...) - repairable, swappable components - some sort of local LLM interface for those who need it Fairphone, Framework laptops and the to-be-released MNT Pocket Reform 7" laptopnprobably come closest to this, minus the RISC-V.
- gessha 3y agoPlease consider investing either time or funds in your Linux distro of choice. Desktop Linux has made progress over the years in being a great substitute for Win/Mac thanks to webappification and Win/Mac emulation. Mobile Linux still needs a lot of work on both hardware and software. Ubuntu Touch, Phosh, PostmarketOS, etc need every bit of help.
- fennecbutt 3y agoWith the end goal being? Nowadays OSS only seems to provide fodder for the big companies to pick up and chew on. Better Linux ain't gonna get many non tech people to not buy laptops from Apple, Dell, etc
- realusername 3y agoPhone manufacturers should be forced to open the bootloader with reasonable hardware documentation so users can install alternatives, the insane situation that we have now is created by this very issue.
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- nocsi 3y agoKinda surprising how much power the EU can exert on tech companies.. and the rest of the world. But now we get one of my favorite classes of vulnerabilities: data format interoperability. Where every vendor implements things to specs, but the specs aren’t clear cut. Anyways, EU sure is asking a lot these days, and these companies are happy to oblige
- PoignardAzur 3y agoI'm always a little amused when someone who's presumably American gets upset about the concept of extraterritorial laws. The US gets to decide who every other country in the world is allowed to do business with (and they're dead serious about enforcing it, including arresting sanction breakers outside US soil), but other countries having laws that US companies must abide by? The audacity!
- madsbuch 3y agoCan you elaborate on why you think the EU is asking a lot? I think we are in this phase where we realise that we are increasingly dependent on infrastructure and that we need to regulate it in order for it to be in line with the societal values. This has happened several times before: Roads, train tracks, phone communications, etc. And it will probably continue on happening in the future. In the same time we are also deregulating. As a consequence Postnord (postal service operating in Denmark and Sweden) has been relieved from obligations and regulations as we don't send too many letters more - they are more free to price themselves and can act in the market.
- pmlnr 3y agohttps://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2024/facing-reality-in-the-eu-and-tech/ https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2024/facing-reality-in-the-e...
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago>Kinda surprising how much power the EU can exert on tech companies. The EU represents one sixth of the global economy - why do you find its power surprising?
- bilekas 3y ago> such as options to choose an alternative default contactless payment method other than Apple's—could introduce new threats, like malware or malicious code used to scam users, that Apple can't promise to protect against. What's so wild about this is when large companies DO lose your data, the best they offer is an apology and a message saying : "We take privacy very seriously" The companies are not being asked to take on extra risk. They're being asked to reduce the gatekeeping. > Some critics of the DMA, including ITIF, have urged countries to "carefully consider the full implications before copying the EU’s digital regulatory system," warning of potentially burdensome restrictions possibly hampering innovation and distorting competition. Because more competition always leads to less innovation ? /s The arguments against this are ridiculous. Especially coming from companies who like to "Move fast and break things". I guess they forgot the "once it doesn't hurt our monopolozation". I love living in the EU.
- zilti 3y ago> that Apple can't promise to protect against. And that is always such a patronising, stupid argument. Apple is not my dad. Apple is a hardware and OS provider and should serve me. It is not their responsibility.
- zamadatix 3y agoWhile I'm fully on the side of the DMA in this case #2 is a genuine concern to have and was stated fairly enough, not something deserving a sarcastic reply. If companies feel large scale success will lead to being over regulated then you start losing more competition out of an intent to force more competition.
- klabb3 3y ago> "These protections," Apple's blog said, "help reduce some of the privacy and security risks to iOS users in the EU," but "Apple has less ability to address other risks—including apps that contain scams, fraud, and abuse, or that expose users to illicit, objectionable, or harmful content." Let me bring out my violin for all you poor unknowing Europeans, whose lives are about to be ruined for eternity. You may not know it, but you have been enjoying a life of happiness and innocence, not because the world is peaceful, but because of a mysterious protector in the shadows, standing outside your window in the rain, thanklessly defending you against the horrors of the world, such as.. objectionable content. The gates of hell are about to open, and there’s nothing you can do! All I want you to know, dear user, is that a whatever happens, don’t blame Apple Incorporated. They fought until the very end, for the right to protect you.
- eska 3y ago[flagged]
- speeder 3y agoLast I checked Germany and Russia aren't directly fighting. And Russia's problem is with US, that it didn't had that much trade to begin with. Similarly nobody is fighting China yet. I don't believe free trade is a permanent solution no, but it does help greatly.
- nolongerthere 3y agoIn the lead up to WWI there was more free trade between all the countries than there ever had been up to that point. In fact even as it looked like war was on the horizon everyone was saying it was impossible because the economies were so interdependent. Money only motivates so much before emotion takes over.
- bombcar 3y agoIn fact, trade can make the temptation for war worse. You go from two countries that have nothing to do with each other to one country that can say "we pay so much for X from them, let's go take it." Perhaps in a perfectly balanced scenario that wouldn't be tempting, but those scenarios are quite rare.
- dralley 3y agoThe reason Germany and Russia aren't directly fighting has little to do with trade. "Russia's problem is with the US" implies that Putin's motivation for invading Ukraine had much to do with the US. I find it strange that westerners are so willing ignore all of the historical irredentism, revisionism, and general nonsense that Putin has been spouting for years and instead insist that the invasion of Ukraine has to do with NATO expansion, something Putin almost never brings up (in comparison to the aforementioned reasons) and in practice clearly isn't concerned since they removed 90% of their troops from the Baltic / Nordic / Polish borders.
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- itopaloglu83 3y agoMaybe a stupid question. Why isn’t there any gatekeeper from the EU region? They are quite industrialized and have a strong economy.
- scarface_74 3y agoShouldn’t Spotify at least be a gatekeeper? Can I publish a song on Spotify and ask listeners to donate to me directly or have a link to buy my merchandise?
- djxfade 3y agoYes, actually you can. As an artist on Spotify you can add a PayPal donation link directly in your artist profile, and you can integrate Shopify merch directly as well. https://spotify.link/kfll23o7LHb https://spotify.link/kfll23o7LHb Even linking specific products with specific releases. I only wish they supported more vendors than Shopify. But they state the feature is currently in beta.
- itopaloglu83 3y agoThanks. So there’s a different set of market behavior the US market and customers are not used to.
- scarface_74 3y agoI am not seeing any of those links. Admittedly, they can at least have external links to their social media sites where they can establish a direct relationship with their listeners.
- landosaari 3y agoFrom details elsewhere [0], Dutch company booking.com could be added. There are probably more that did not make the first round: Telegram Spotify - Sweden OLX - Netherlands Ryanair - Ireland Are some possibilities for the next round. [0] https://open-web-advocacy.org/blog/the-digital-markets-act-is-in-force-what-happens-now/ https://open-web-advocacy.org/blog/the-digital-markets-act-i...
- tempodox 3y agoThose reactions are good. They mean the DMA has the potential to actually change things for the better.