5 ms·

Linux market share passes 4% for first time; macOS dominance declines

43 points by MISTERJerk2U 3y ago

amelius 3y ago
Is anyone working on getting MacOS and iOS apps working under Linux? Because most effort seems to be in the other direction.
- Ivoah 3y ago
  Darling is the only project that I'm aware of: https://www.darlinghq.org/ https://www.darlinghq.org/
  - amelius 3y ago
    Yes, but it doesn't look very active.
- What2159 3y ago
  That is probably because there are no products on MacOs needed on Linux.
- nubinetwork 3y ago
  A quick google shows me a program called darling, which is a "macos equivalent of wine".
- wmlive 3y ago
  Apart from Darling there is, of course, the venerable GNUstep development environment that allows porting MacOSX apps natively to Linux and related systems. See https://gnustep.github.io https://gnustep.github.io for details.
mikece 3y ago
I'm surprised Google doesn't come out with something akin to Chrome but that is a full Linux with the abiliy to load full applications on it... and something that can be installed from an ISO on old (or new) machines. What would be the downside of this?
- bombcar 3y ago
  People who want that can get any number of Linuxes - and ChromeOS exists on new devices for cheap as almost free. There's really no market there. See also: https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/ https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/ (Today I learned that ChromeOS is somewhat dependent on Portage from Gentoo)
- theanonymousone 3y ago
  I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but it seems to me that ChromeOS Flex ticks all your boxes. I use it regularly, on two Fujitsu and Lenovo laptops, neither being Chromebooks (hence your last requirement - the rest are available also in ChromeOS "proper").
- alamortsubite 3y ago
  Sounds interesting, but I'm curious what you think the upside would be for Google.
- progbits 3y ago
  There are such things: https://mrchromebox.tech/#alt_os https://mrchromebox.tech/#alt_os Crostini gives you Linux container inside ChromeOS. If you want pure Linux experience you can install whatever distro you want as well.
- tapoxi 3y ago
  ChromeOS is a full Linux, it just runs Linux apps in a Debian VM. If you install anything in there it looks native, shows up in the application menu, draws it's Wayland/X11 UI just fine. Even Steam works. https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en You can also get ChromeOS as an ISO, but they mostly advertise it to enterprises to reuse old hardware, and not to end users. https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_uk/os/chromeosflex/ https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_uk/os/chromeosflex/
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
What2159 3y ago
For cloud programming, I find ChromeOs linux performance to be perfectly acceptable. The price penalty on Apple products is too high. I also HATED the fact that I has to give Apple my credit card to get it to work. Apple treats your laptop like it owns it. I was unable to delete Itunes and had to sign Terms of Service that I didn't want.
- byteknight 3y ago
  Like ChromeOS? While not your typical distribution it is Linux
- mistrial9 3y ago
  always ON monitoring from Google is the price penalty for a chromeOS.. personal profiling held without public access.. history says this never goes well..
- stephenr 3y ago
  > has to give Apple my credit card to get it to work Get what to work?
AlexandrB 3y ago
I wonder if this could be related to M1/2/3 Macs being worse for x86 system software development than the old Intel Macs. I work on ROS[1] which runs on x86 Linux platforms, but usually develop on a Mac. I may have to move to a Linux laptop soon because there's not an easy path (that I'm aware of) to running x86 ROS code on an M3: compiling the entire system for arm would be a huge headache while running x86 code in a Linux VM under Rosetta has a lot of unknowns. Obviously my case is a bit of an outlier, but once you add up enough outliers you might see a real impact. [1] https://www.ros.org https://www.ros.org Edit: I'm really going to miss the Mac. As much as I love the Linux CLI, Linux GUIs are a huge mess. A simple example: on MacOS you can use Emacs style keyboard shortcuts (^A, ^E, ^K, etc) to manipulate text in just about any text field in any app. AFAIK no such thing exist in Linux, which generally uses Windows style shortcuts (Home, End) that a much more limited. Another example is the ever-present "Help" menu in Mac apps that can be used to find/run other menu items.
- lights0123 3y ago
  What problems are you running into with ROS on ARM? I've used it both on Raspberry Pis and ARM Macs with Docker (both natively and with translation) needing no modifications.
- endemic 3y ago
  I bought a used Mac Mini for personal projects _only_ for those keyboard shortcuts. They're too ingrained in my mind from using a Mac for my day job.
- ndiddy 3y ago
  > AFAIK no such thing exist in Linux, which generally uses Windows style shortcuts (Home, End) that a much more limited. GTK used to have functionality for using Emacs shortcuts in text fields, but they removed it in GTK 4: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/1669 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/1669 One issue was that because there's no separate command key, you'd end up with other functionality overriding the shortcuts (i.e. Ctrl+P would bring up the print dialog).
- al_borland 3y ago
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] More discussion a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39576200 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39576200 And yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39600172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39600172
- neogodless 3y ago
  Several variations on this theme recurring regularly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38853877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38853877 63 days ago, 345 comments Linux hits nearly 4% desktop user share on Statcounter (gamingonlinux.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39252801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39252801 30 days ago, 79 comments Linux has reached 4% for the partial Feburary 2024 data on StatCounter (github.com/openstatslab) Your post above from yesterday has 179 comments.
O1111OOO 3y ago
There are always so many questions I have when I see numbers like these. One that is always in the forefront is how are people getting Linux on their computers? 4% is pretty impressive if the vast majority of users are actually installing Linux themselves (USB ISO, UEFI/BIOS). It might indicate that we're (possibly) reaching the upper limits of power (tech-savvy) users. If the vast majority are from computers with Linux already pre-installed, that would be more amazing to me. It tells me that the entire Linux ecosystem is becoming more robust and self-supporting.
ppetty 3y ago
This is a typo right: "macOS dominance declines”? Or clickbait maybe? It doesn’t seem like macOS from its lowest figure mentioned in the article (~15%) to its highest (~21%) dominates. It seems like the room for growth for both Linux & macOS is huge, I like both of these underdogs and wouldn’t bet against either. But why that headline?

43 points by MISTERJerk2U 3y ago

Is anyone working on getting MacOS and iOS apps working under Linux? Because most effort seems to be in the other direction.

Ivoah 3y ago
Darling is the only project that I'm aware of: https://www.darlinghq.org/ https://www.darlinghq.org/
- amelius 3y ago
  Yes, but it doesn't look very active.
What2159 3y ago
That is probably because there are no products on MacOs needed on Linux.
nubinetwork 3y ago
A quick google shows me a program called darling, which is a "macos equivalent of wine".
wmlive 3y ago
Apart from Darling there is, of course, the venerable GNUstep development environment that allows porting MacOSX apps natively to Linux and related systems. See https://gnustep.github.io https://gnustep.github.io for details.

mikece 3y ago

I'm surprised Google doesn't come out with something akin to Chrome but that is a full Linux with the abiliy to load full applications on it... and something that can be installed from an ISO on old (or new) machines. What would be the downside of this?

bombcar 3y ago
People who want that can get any number of Linuxes - and ChromeOS exists on new devices for cheap as almost free. There's really no market there. See also: https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/ https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/ (Today I learned that ChromeOS is somewhat dependent on Portage from Gentoo)
theanonymousone 3y ago
I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but it seems to me that ChromeOS Flex ticks all your boxes. I use it regularly, on two Fujitsu and Lenovo laptops, neither being Chromebooks (hence your last requirement - the rest are available also in ChromeOS "proper").
alamortsubite 3y ago
Sounds interesting, but I'm curious what you think the upside would be for Google.
progbits 3y ago
There are such things: https://mrchromebox.tech/#alt_os https://mrchromebox.tech/#alt_os Crostini gives you Linux container inside ChromeOS. If you want pure Linux experience you can install whatever distro you want as well.
tapoxi 3y ago
ChromeOS is a full Linux, it just runs Linux apps in a Debian VM. If you install anything in there it looks native, shows up in the application menu, draws it's Wayland/X11 UI just fine. Even Steam works. https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en You can also get ChromeOS as an ISO, but they mostly advertise it to enterprises to reuse old hardware, and not to end users. https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_uk/os/chromeosflex/ https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_uk/os/chromeosflex/

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

What2159 3y ago

For cloud programming, I find ChromeOs linux performance to be perfectly acceptable. The price penalty on Apple products is too high. I also HATED the fact that I has to give Apple my credit card to get it to work. Apple treats your laptop like it owns it. I was unable to delete Itunes and had to sign Terms of Service that I didn't want.

byteknight 3y ago
Like ChromeOS? While not your typical distribution it is Linux
mistrial9 3y ago
always ON monitoring from Google is the price penalty for a chromeOS.. personal profiling held without public access.. history says this never goes well..
stephenr 3y ago
> has to give Apple my credit card to get it to work Get what to work?

AlexandrB 3y ago

I wonder if this could be related to M1/2/3 Macs being worse for x86 system software development than the old Intel Macs. I work on ROS[1] which runs on x86 Linux platforms, but usually develop on a Mac. I may have to move to a Linux laptop soon because there's not an easy path (that I'm aware of) to running x86 ROS code on an M3: compiling the entire system for arm would be a huge headache while running x86 code in a Linux VM under Rosetta has a lot of unknowns. Obviously my case is a bit of an outlier, but once you add up enough outliers you might see a real impact. [1] https://www.ros.org https://www.ros.org Edit: I'm really going to miss the Mac. As much as I love the Linux CLI, Linux GUIs are a huge mess. A simple example: on MacOS you can use Emacs style keyboard shortcuts (^A, ^E, ^K, etc) to manipulate text in just about any text field in any app. AFAIK no such thing exist in Linux, which generally uses Windows style shortcuts (Home, End) that a much more limited. Another example is the ever-present "Help" menu in Mac apps that can be used to find/run other menu items.

lights0123 3y ago
What problems are you running into with ROS on ARM? I've used it both on Raspberry Pis and ARM Macs with Docker (both natively and with translation) needing no modifications.
endemic 3y ago
I bought a used Mac Mini for personal projects _only_ for those keyboard shortcuts. They're too ingrained in my mind from using a Mac for my day job.
ndiddy 3y ago
> AFAIK no such thing exist in Linux, which generally uses Windows style shortcuts (Home, End) that a much more limited. GTK used to have functionality for using Emacs shortcuts in text fields, but they removed it in GTK 4: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/1669 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/1669 One issue was that because there's no separate command key, you'd end up with other functionality overriding the shortcuts (i.e. Ctrl+P would bring up the print dialog).
al_borland 3y ago

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] More discussion a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39576200 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39576200 And yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39600172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39600172

neogodless 3y ago
Several variations on this theme recurring regularly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38853877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38853877 63 days ago, 345 comments Linux hits nearly 4% desktop user share on Statcounter (gamingonlinux.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39252801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39252801 30 days ago, 79 comments Linux has reached 4% for the partial Feburary 2024 data on StatCounter (github.com/openstatslab) Your post above from yesterday has 179 comments.

O1111OOO 3y ago

There are always so many questions I have when I see numbers like these. One that is always in the forefront is how are people getting Linux on their computers? 4% is pretty impressive if the vast majority of users are actually installing Linux themselves (USB ISO, UEFI/BIOS). It might indicate that we're (possibly) reaching the upper limits of power (tech-savvy) users. If the vast majority are from computers with Linux already pre-installed, that would be more amazing to me. It tells me that the entire Linux ecosystem is becoming more robust and self-supporting.

ppetty 3y ago

This is a typo right: "macOS dominance declines”? Or clickbait maybe? It doesn’t seem like macOS from its lowest figure mentioned in the article (~15%) to its highest (~21%) dominates. It seems like the room for growth for both Linux & macOS is huge, I like both of these underdogs and wouldn’t bet against either. But why that headline?