5 ms·

Why is that such an insane thing for them to say?

tsimionescu 3y ago
How is it not? How could anyone possibly know that number? And what gives you any inkling that it has the remotest chance of being true?
- loceng 3y ago
  They asked ChatGPT of course!
- Falimonda 3y ago
  How about the possibility that OpenAI and the Albanian government - along with many other governments - have a relationship of which you're unaware?
  - baobabKoodaa 3y ago
    Uh huh. And they arrived at this 5.5 number how? It's bullshit.
    - Falimonda 3y ago
      You cannot fathom how a government official may have told them that they've managed to accelerate their EU accession through the help of LLMs by a specific number of months? Here's a speculative scenario that doesn't seem so insane: Albania has a roadmap for EU accession. The roadmap is broken up into discrete tasks. The tasks have estimates for time to completion. They've been able to quickly hack away at 5.5 years worth of tasks using LLMs. Your problem with the statement is that they didn't provide a source. Maybe express interest in the facts that might support that instead of freaking out over perceived insanity.
      - malermeister 3y ago
        EU accession isn't some jira story where you close tickets. For a country like Albania, it requires massive social, cultural, political and economical changes. There's no way anyone has a good estimate and there's no way an LLM has magically transformed the culture in a way that's a) meaningful and b) quantifiable. Turkey has been a candidate for 25 years now, with no meaningful progress.
        neom 3y ago
        Why could it not be 15 years for the cultural stuff and 10 years worth of paperwork process, I can imagine an LLM cutting that process in half if it involved hiring and training staff, or waiting for staff to become free from other work to build said paperwork. Out of everything they said in that email, the 5.5 years isn't something I'd pick on given, as you noted, the crazy timelines we're talking about to even be able to put forward an EU application.
        tsimionescu 3y ago
        Because these are made up numbers. No one knows how long it takes to change culture. The paperwork stuff is not like filling in a tax return, it's actually creating laws that fit into the Albanian legal system but implement EU legislation, and then passing those laws. It's defining new economic measures, getting those numbers, and then formulating legislation to improve them, and then actually implementing that legislation, and the improvements actually happening. There are no real estimates on any of these numbers. Some countries joined the EU in months, others in 1-2 years, others took 5-10, Turkey has been in the process for two decades or so.
        neom 3y ago
        Surely everyone sensible knows an estimate when they see one? All estimates are made up numbers friend, how much flour you use in bread is a made up number too, how long you cook an egg, how fast should a speed limit be set...sure, based on some form of realty, but all estimated are made up numbers. So lets go to that "some form of reality" we derived that made up number form: https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/albania-to-speed-up-eu-accession-using-chatgpt/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/albania-to-sp... - Seems reasonable, no? Picking on a number based on it's "made upness" is a fool's errand, pick on the assumptions of it's basis in reality.
    - gandutraveler 3y ago
      [flagged]
Barrin92 3y ago
because it's a completely made up claim with a random number thrown in. How do you end up with "5.5" years for a process that doesn't have a timetable, number of estimated emails required for EU accession divided by number of emails ChatGPT can generate per day?
- Falimonda 3y ago
  What do emails have anything to do with EU accession?
  - Barrin92 3y ago
    literally nothing, that was the point. There is no way you make such a weirdly specific claim about an indeterminate process without cooking up some invented metric. It's like saying "ChatGPT accelerated my next promotion by 24.378 days, this is a totally scientific number, I swear"
  - thinkingemote 3y ago
    Exactly. No one knows! The point is that there are many unknown variables but yet the company estimates the future outcome based on many variables. Personally I think it's a kind of extrapolation based on new processes. It's more PR than math. The aim of the message is to say that AI can help wider society
- ascorbic 3y ago
  I was pretty skeptical about this too, but looking into it there is some basis in fact. They're using it to help translate and integrate the "Acquis communautaire" - the huge body of EU laws and regulations that need to be enshrined in national laws of candidate countries. This is one of the most time-consuming parts of the process, and usually takes many years. Leaving aside how risky this is (presumably they will have checks in place), I can see how this could save years of work. Saying 5.5 years is ridiculous false precision though. It won't help with the toughest part though, which is the politics of the other member states.
  - 3y ago
zo1 3y ago
Don't know what others think, but to me that's just corporate gobbly-gook word-salad that's simultaneously true, untrue, and unverifiable all at the same time. They might as well say something like "we're forming synergy with humanities proverbial intellect for the betterment of all humanitarian goals such as equity, justice and fairness".
b-side 3y ago
Last time I checked, the decision to admit a new member state requires the unanimous approval of the EU's current member states. As such unless OpenAI can literally influence world politics the claim is 100% bogus. All it takes is one rogue member and Albania will never join the EU.

How is it not? How could anyone possibly know that number? And what gives you any inkling that it has the remotest chance of being true?

loceng 3y ago
They asked ChatGPT of course!
Falimonda 3y ago
How about the possibility that OpenAI and the Albanian government - along with many other governments - have a relationship of which you're unaware?
- baobabKoodaa 3y ago
  Uh huh. And they arrived at this 5.5 number how? It's bullshit.
  - Falimonda 3y ago
    You cannot fathom how a government official may have told them that they've managed to accelerate their EU accession through the help of LLMs by a specific number of months? Here's a speculative scenario that doesn't seem so insane: Albania has a roadmap for EU accession. The roadmap is broken up into discrete tasks. The tasks have estimates for time to completion. They've been able to quickly hack away at 5.5 years worth of tasks using LLMs. Your problem with the statement is that they didn't provide a source. Maybe express interest in the facts that might support that instead of freaking out over perceived insanity.
    - malermeister 3y ago
      EU accession isn't some jira story where you close tickets. For a country like Albania, it requires massive social, cultural, political and economical changes. There's no way anyone has a good estimate and there's no way an LLM has magically transformed the culture in a way that's a) meaningful and b) quantifiable. Turkey has been a candidate for 25 years now, with no meaningful progress.
      - neom 3y ago
        Why could it not be 15 years for the cultural stuff and 10 years worth of paperwork process, I can imagine an LLM cutting that process in half if it involved hiring and training staff, or waiting for staff to become free from other work to build said paperwork. Out of everything they said in that email, the 5.5 years isn't something I'd pick on given, as you noted, the crazy timelines we're talking about to even be able to put forward an EU application.
        tsimionescu 3y ago
        Because these are made up numbers. No one knows how long it takes to change culture. The paperwork stuff is not like filling in a tax return, it's actually creating laws that fit into the Albanian legal system but implement EU legislation, and then passing those laws. It's defining new economic measures, getting those numbers, and then formulating legislation to improve them, and then actually implementing that legislation, and the improvements actually happening. There are no real estimates on any of these numbers. Some countries joined the EU in months, others in 1-2 years, others took 5-10, Turkey has been in the process for two decades or so.
        neom 3y ago
        Surely everyone sensible knows an estimate when they see one? All estimates are made up numbers friend, how much flour you use in bread is a made up number too, how long you cook an egg, how fast should a speed limit be set...sure, based on some form of realty, but all estimated are made up numbers. So lets go to that "some form of reality" we derived that made up number form: https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/albania-to-speed-up-eu-accession-using-chatgpt/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/albania-to-sp... - Seems reasonable, no? Picking on a number based on it's "made upness" is a fool's errand, pick on the assumptions of it's basis in reality.
  - gandutraveler 3y ago
    [flagged]

Barrin92 3y ago

because it's a completely made up claim with a random number thrown in. How do you end up with "5.5" years for a process that doesn't have a timetable, number of estimated emails required for EU accession divided by number of emails ChatGPT can generate per day?

Falimonda 3y ago
What do emails have anything to do with EU accession?
- Barrin92 3y ago
  literally nothing, that was the point. There is no way you make such a weirdly specific claim about an indeterminate process without cooking up some invented metric. It's like saying "ChatGPT accelerated my next promotion by 24.378 days, this is a totally scientific number, I swear"
- thinkingemote 3y ago
  Exactly. No one knows! The point is that there are many unknown variables but yet the company estimates the future outcome based on many variables. Personally I think it's a kind of extrapolation based on new processes. It's more PR than math. The aim of the message is to say that AI can help wider society
ascorbic 3y ago
I was pretty skeptical about this too, but looking into it there is some basis in fact. They're using it to help translate and integrate the "Acquis communautaire" - the huge body of EU laws and regulations that need to be enshrined in national laws of candidate countries. This is one of the most time-consuming parts of the process, and usually takes many years. Leaving aside how risky this is (presumably they will have checks in place), I can see how this could save years of work. Saying 5.5 years is ridiculous false precision though. It won't help with the toughest part though, which is the politics of the other member states.
- 3y ago

zo1 3y ago

Don't know what others think, but to me that's just corporate gobbly-gook word-salad that's simultaneously true, untrue, and unverifiable all at the same time. They might as well say something like "we're forming synergy with humanities proverbial intellect for the betterment of all humanitarian goals such as equity, justice and fairness".

b-side 3y ago

Last time I checked, the decision to admit a new member state requires the unanimous approval of the EU's current member states. As such unless OpenAI can literally influence world politics the claim is 100% bogus. All it takes is one rogue member and Albania will never join the EU.