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> [Lindsey Johnson] added, “By normalizing being late on credit card payments, the administration is knowingly putting consumers’ financial health at risk.” It

> [Lindsey Johnson] added, “By normalizing being late on credit card payments, the administration is knowingly putting consumers’ financial health at risk.” It's interesting that they are not at all concerned about the interest on credit card balance putting consumer' financial health at risk. For consumers at risk, the interest charge is far larger than the late fee itself anyway, which means the late fee is just gravy on top.

dheera 3y ago
Can we just do something about taxes? People would be able to pay for stuff if the government didn't steal so much of their money. After the recent few years of inflation middle class is now subject to higher tax brackets than ever, and poverty class is being taxed at almost 30% if you include some states' state tax. Then there are property taxes which should be abolished, or else landlords just pass them onto renters, which means poverty class now pays the taxes of the rich.
- throwway120385 3y ago
  The world is a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    Is it? The government wants to persist and history shows it/they will do what it can to do so. Whether that's direct taxes or other means of financial manipulation (e.g., printing more money), govs do whatever it takes to avoid chaos and persist.
    - op00to 3y ago
      That’s literally why I pay my taxes. To avoid chaos.
      - chiefalchemist 3y ago
        And the gov runs deficits and prints money (read: indirectly taxing) to avoid the chaos of raising taxes. We're paying but in ways that are less transparent.
        op00to 3y ago
        So what?
        chiefalchemist 3y ago
        You're being taxed and you don't even know it. That's what.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- moate 3y ago
  Weird that “the wealthy abuse the poor” is literally part of your complaint but you’re not focusing on them and instead the only group that could potentially rectify that without violent revolution.(please note: “could” is doing a lot of work in the previous sentence and I understand that many of those in government are there to ensure the right for the wealthy to continue this abuse). Do you believe landlords would lower rents tomorrow if their tax was lower absent any other force incentivizing them to pass that profit back? I’m pretty sure there was a post on here a few days ago about how current rent pricing software used by many many people may be violating price fixing laws. Do you think that without regulation banks would be better? That somehow the process of reigning in their avarice is causing it? When has that ever historically been true, as almost any era or un/deregulation coincides with massive wealth disparity.
- BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
  > After the recent few years of inflation middle class is now subject to higher tax brackets than ever, and poverty class is being taxed at almost 30% if you include some states' state tax. Under the 2023 tax codes, a single filer in California would have to have an household income of $118,250 in order to see a 30% effective tax rate across federal and state taxes combined. I understand $118k might not go as far as it used to (depending on the specific location), but that's hardly the "poverty class". Under the same conditions, a $50,000 income would see an 18.84% effective rate. Both calculations assume the standard deduction is used; common tax credits and deductions would bring the effective rate lower. These were calculated using: https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator I don't disagree with the premise that taxes, both federally and at state levels, could be more progressive than they already are, ceteris paribus. Property and sales taxes are broken in this regard, and the obscenely wealthy have too many pathways to avoid contributing meaningfully to the nation's collective tax burden.
  - twoodfin 3y ago
    Don’t forget Californians pay at least a 7.25% sales tax. And counting only individual FICA taxes is really just an accounting trick. Merely accounting for employer FICA “contributions”, and $70K in California gets you to a 30% marginal rate.
  - dheera 3y ago
    $118k is close to poverty class in the bay area if you have a family. For someone fresh out of college who can live in half a bedroom in a moldy group house, bike everywhere, and never see a doctor even in emergency, it's barely okay, but that income isn't sustainable. Median income is $175k in SF and $181k in SJ, by the way.
- op00to 3y ago
  You can live in a cesspool if you want. The rest of us will be over here with public sewers taking our poop away.
- callalex 3y ago
  Why don’t you choose to live somewhere like Somalia or Haiti?
_heimdall 3y ago
A more cynical view would be that the government is backed into an economic corner and need an ever growing level of consumer debt to prop up the markets and/or currency.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  Why is that cynical? One of first things POTUS Bush #2 said in the wake of 9-11 was (effectively), "Keep shopping." It's a fiat currency based system that persists simply on the belief that it's too big to stop (i.e., fail). Just keep your head stuff in the sand, keep pushing forward and pretend there's no cliff ahead.
  - vkou 3y ago
    > It's a fiat currency based system that persists simply on the belief that it's too big to stop (i.e., fail). Just keep your head stuff in the sand, keep pushing forward and pretend there's no cliff ahead. Any social contract operates on that principle. Government only exists because most people believe in its legitimacy. Law only works because most people follow most of it. Property rights only exist because most people respect them most of the time. Contracts only work because most signatories follow them most of the time. It's weird how fiat money is the one thing that gets singled out, here, when all the social agreements that actually make our society work are also artificial.
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      When a financial tradition (i.e., money) carelessly morphs into being a "social contract" red flags should be flying. Instead, we close our eyes and pray?
      - fineIllregister 3y ago
        Money has always been a social contract. Just because it's a "financial tradition" doesn't change that. Shiny metals are no more valuable to hungry people than numbers in a database. The myth of King Midas shows this is nothing new.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

dheera 3y ago

Can we just do something about taxes? People would be able to pay for stuff if the government didn't steal so much of their money. After the recent few years of inflation middle class is now subject to higher tax brackets than ever, and poverty class is being taxed at almost 30% if you include some states' state tax. Then there are property taxes which should be abolished, or else landlords just pass them onto renters, which means poverty class now pays the taxes of the rich.

throwway120385 3y ago
The world is a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  Is it? The government wants to persist and history shows it/they will do what it can to do so. Whether that's direct taxes or other means of financial manipulation (e.g., printing more money), govs do whatever it takes to avoid chaos and persist.
  - op00to 3y ago
    That’s literally why I pay my taxes. To avoid chaos.
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      And the gov runs deficits and prints money (read: indirectly taxing) to avoid the chaos of raising taxes. We're paying but in ways that are less transparent.
      - op00to 3y ago
        So what?
        chiefalchemist 3y ago
        You're being taxed and you don't even know it. That's what.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
moate 3y ago
Weird that “the wealthy abuse the poor” is literally part of your complaint but you’re not focusing on them and instead the only group that could potentially rectify that without violent revolution.(please note: “could” is doing a lot of work in the previous sentence and I understand that many of those in government are there to ensure the right for the wealthy to continue this abuse). Do you believe landlords would lower rents tomorrow if their tax was lower absent any other force incentivizing them to pass that profit back? I’m pretty sure there was a post on here a few days ago about how current rent pricing software used by many many people may be violating price fixing laws. Do you think that without regulation banks would be better? That somehow the process of reigning in their avarice is causing it? When has that ever historically been true, as almost any era or un/deregulation coincides with massive wealth disparity.
BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
> After the recent few years of inflation middle class is now subject to higher tax brackets than ever, and poverty class is being taxed at almost 30% if you include some states' state tax. Under the 2023 tax codes, a single filer in California would have to have an household income of $118,250 in order to see a 30% effective tax rate across federal and state taxes combined. I understand $118k might not go as far as it used to (depending on the specific location), but that's hardly the "poverty class". Under the same conditions, a $50,000 income would see an 18.84% effective rate. Both calculations assume the standard deduction is used; common tax credits and deductions would bring the effective rate lower. These were calculated using: https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator I don't disagree with the premise that taxes, both federally and at state levels, could be more progressive than they already are, ceteris paribus. Property and sales taxes are broken in this regard, and the obscenely wealthy have too many pathways to avoid contributing meaningfully to the nation's collective tax burden.
- twoodfin 3y ago
  Don’t forget Californians pay at least a 7.25% sales tax. And counting only individual FICA taxes is really just an accounting trick. Merely accounting for employer FICA “contributions”, and $70K in California gets you to a 30% marginal rate.
- dheera 3y ago
  $118k is close to poverty class in the bay area if you have a family. For someone fresh out of college who can live in half a bedroom in a moldy group house, bike everywhere, and never see a doctor even in emergency, it's barely okay, but that income isn't sustainable. Median income is $175k in SF and $181k in SJ, by the way.
op00to 3y ago
You can live in a cesspool if you want. The rest of us will be over here with public sewers taking our poop away.
callalex 3y ago
Why don’t you choose to live somewhere like Somalia or Haiti?

_heimdall 3y ago

A more cynical view would be that the government is backed into an economic corner and need an ever growing level of consumer debt to prop up the markets and/or currency.

chiefalchemist 3y ago
Why is that cynical? One of first things POTUS Bush #2 said in the wake of 9-11 was (effectively), "Keep shopping." It's a fiat currency based system that persists simply on the belief that it's too big to stop (i.e., fail). Just keep your head stuff in the sand, keep pushing forward and pretend there's no cliff ahead.
- vkou 3y ago
  > It's a fiat currency based system that persists simply on the belief that it's too big to stop (i.e., fail). Just keep your head stuff in the sand, keep pushing forward and pretend there's no cliff ahead. Any social contract operates on that principle. Government only exists because most people believe in its legitimacy. Law only works because most people follow most of it. Property rights only exist because most people respect them most of the time. Contracts only work because most signatories follow them most of the time. It's weird how fiat money is the one thing that gets singled out, here, when all the social agreements that actually make our society work are also artificial.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    When a financial tradition (i.e., money) carelessly morphs into being a "social contract" red flags should be flying. Instead, we close our eyes and pray?
    - fineIllregister 3y ago
      Money has always been a social contract. Just because it's a "financial tradition" doesn't change that. Shiny metals are no more valuable to hungry people than numbers in a database. The myth of King Midas shows this is nothing new.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]