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It is an interesting thing to think about, I have friends that use Windows that are shocked that I willingly chose to get an external trackpad when I use my Mac

It is an interesting thing to think about, I have friends that use Windows that are shocked that I willingly chose to get an external trackpad when I use my Mac as desktop. Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like without even thinking about it while I was re-reading this comment, I had fingers just resting on my trackpad. It has to be a combination of software and hardware. Likely shared software and hardware. Like is wrist detection on the trackpad the same as the wrist detection on an iPad? I believe that the 3D Touch tech that was once in the iPhone is the same tech that is in the track pad and the Apple Watch. We saw them use the same (or similar) tech on the iPhone home button when they removed the physical button. Is the multitouch functionality of the trackpad the same technology as in iPhones and iPads? I am genuinely curious about some of these because they feel like the same technology from the outside looking in and it would explain a lot about why it works as well as it does. And yeah on the ROI, I mean they sell a $130 external trackpad... that I had zero qualms about buying. Because when using my MacBook Pro as a laptop I heavily rely on gestures. Those gestures only work if the trackpad is as perfect as it can be. But those gestures is also software.

asdff 3y ago
>I believe that the 3D Touch tech that was once in the iPhone is the same tech that is in the track pad and the Apple Watch 3D touch was only in the iphones for a few years, it was too expensive so they cut it in favor of the haptic touch they have now. The macbook trackpad is nice but honestly I prefer the old 2012 one they had with the actual physical button you could tweak the pressure of with a screwdriver. It seems a lot more ergonomic to have some actual give in the device instead of just jamming your finger onto an unmoving slab of glass. You don't even realize how hard it is you are pressing onto these things until you try testing your muscle memory with the computer off; its sort of alarming.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  I thought 3D Touch was cut because no one seemed to know the functionality existed, it had a discoverability issue. It was kinda tacked onto iOS unlike WatchOS where it was part of how the entire OS was designed. Which I always found unfortunate, it had some really nice uses like not needing to wait when holding down for the OS to register and being able to pull up a context menu, slide up, and release to select the menu item all in one motion. I was sad when it was removed, but I also get it. I get the idea of a physical trackpad, and I do remember when that was the thing. I honestly don't even notice that the trackpad is not physically moving. It simulates the feel enough that if I didn't know it was not moving I would think it was. You are right it is shocking when you try to use it while it's off and it's like... oh right. But I just am not in that situation often. (However when Mac freezes and it "clicks" multiple times since it did not properly register ealrier, that's honestly kinda wild... but infrequent). But I also like not needing to think, I need to press on a specific part of the trackpad for it to properly register. I vividly remember only the bottom half really registering and the higher you went the shallower the press was.
- iknowstuff 3y ago
  I’m sorry what You can adjust the pressing force required in software, and the glass does in fact depress under your finger. It’s cushioned - that’s how they detect pressure.
  - jxdxbx 3y ago
    My Apple trackpads don’t click when they are powered off. It just feels like pressing a piece of glass.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jandrese 3y ago
    You can also detect pressure by just measuring how much of your finger is touching the pad. A small spot means light pressure, a large spot where your skin is flatted out more against the glass is higher pressure. In practice these kinds of measurements are fairly tricky so they don't get used very much.
    - seltzered_ 3y ago
      This. If you ever look at apples raw input touch privateframework it provides enough data for the relative direction/size as well as has some encoded states to at least detect between a very faint touch and a finger on the trackpad. This I think goes back to the first unibody MacBooks from around 2008.
      - wtallis 3y ago
        The multitouch trackpads actually showed up in the early 2008 MacBook Pros that were the last ones before switching to the unibody enclosure (IIRC the keyboard/trackpad parts could be retrofitted into 2007 MacBook Pros). The early 2008 models still had a separate physical button at the bottom of the trackpad. The late 2008 models got rid of the button and made the whole trackpad hinged at the top to act as a button. Then in 2015 they introduced the Force Touch trackpad that fixed the awkwardness of needing more force to click the further up the trackpad you went.
TonyTrapp 3y ago
> Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like without even thinking about it while I was re-reading this comment, I had fingers just resting on my trackpad. I think I'll never "get" drag&drop on MacBook touchpads. Every time I try to do it, I accidentally open the file info, or the touchpad is too small to actually reach the place where I want to drop the file to. It is absolutely doing things I don't want it to do. I absolutely dread having to use the touchpad. (that applies to other laptops too, though)
- jxdxbx 3y ago
  I love drag-and-dropping to arbitrary locations in the Finder using spring-loaded folders. I think it is a bit tricky…if you don’t know the trick.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  Since you mention the touchpad being too small, are you trying to drag and drop with one finger or multiple? What I always just do is click with my thumb and move around with my other fingers. As long as my thumb stays down it stays selected. Then just a few quick swipes with my finger gets whatever it is I am selecting where I want to go. Same works for windows and anything you click and drag. Admittedly there is a quirk here that I have noticed, if for some reason I click and try to drag with the same finger, I then can't switch to dragging around with a different finger. But personally I treat my thumb just resting no the track pad as my click finger and move/gesture with my other fingers.
  - TonyTrapp 3y ago
    Thanks for the hint, I will give that a try.
  - prewett 3y ago
    I find it easier to rest my second finger and drag with the third finger as I don't have to twist my hand that way.
pmontra 3y ago
If I'll ever use a desktop again I also want an external touchpad and I want to place it in front of the keyboard like on a laptop. But you wrote trackpad. It's it the one with the ball? Probably not because you also wrote about multitouch. So, which trackpad do you use?
- layer8 3y ago
  Touchpad and trackpad are synonyms. Trackpad is the older term.
- bschwindHN 3y ago
  I'm a 100% trackpad user as well, and I also got into mechanical keyboards so my setups always look like this now: https://imgur.com/a/pmRO9r9 https://imgur.com/a/pmRO9r9 That one is an older magic trackpad, if it ever dies I'll upgrade to the newer one.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    What's the two keyboards layout for? At first I suspected that they are two different keyboards, let's say US and some national layout, but they are both US. Maybe the black one is not connected and it's there only for the picture? Anyway, that's the keyboard/touchpad layout I would use too. The only difference is that I like touchpads with physical buttons. Three of them because I use Linux and pasting text with the middle button is great.
    - bschwindHN 3y ago
      Ah yeah, the extra keyboard was just there for the photo. I designed the PCB so I'm kinda proud of it :) I agree that physical buttons are nice. The older magic trackpads actually are physical buttons, but they're on the underside of the trackpad, so the disadvantage there is you don't feel the button on the surface.
mewpmewp2 3y ago
My work laptop is a macbook and I have been using it for over 5 years, but I still can't get a handle on it, even for a right click. I am not sure how people find MacOS so good. It just constantly goes against my intution and muscle memory. I also hate how I have to constantly turn of the mouse acceleration at random times using CLI.
- windowsrookie 3y ago
  Right click is just tap with two fingers. What issue are you having?
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    You are right it works, but I guess I somehow usually expect it to happen in a lighter way, without the actual click going through. And when I do it, it feels weird to me. It feels like I have to exert more force than I would find "pleasurable" or "intuitive" for a right click. Like I either expect there to be a button that I have to actually press, or if it's a touchpad it feels like it should work with a lighter tap. It feels like having to press too hard for something that doesn't actually seem to go physically down enough. Another thing that feels really weird to me is the cmd button location. On windows I would use ctrl + c and v, it's easy to use my pinky finger, but with mac I have to twist my thumb and index finger. I don't know. I just can't get into it. All of those little actions that are smooth for me otherwise feel like quite a chore and a turn off.
    - al_borland 3y ago
      In the settings you can set how much force is needed, light, medium, or firm. Try changing it to light (if you haven't already). You can also enable tap-to-click there if you prefer the lightest touch. The settings area also shows all the various multitouch things that can be done, which is convenient place to learn them, or get a reminder. In the settings you can also flip the modifier keys around, like control and command. Though that could lead to other weird things like trying to do control+c in the terminal. I usually use my ring and index, or middle finger and index. If you're using pinky for control, why switch to the thumb when you can use a closer finger that would be over command with your hand in the same position? I will say the command+c does get a bit cramped, but I think command+v feels better than the stretch of control+v.
matternous 3y ago
I got an external trackpad recently too for my Mac, but it feels noticeably less responsive than the one built into my MacBook, even when connected with a USB cable.
kristofferR 3y ago
> It has to be a combination of software and hardware. Likely shared software and hardware. You need decent hardware to be sure, but Asashi Linux on Macbooks is a horrific experience, unless you plug in a mouse. It seems like it is mostly software.
fddrdplktrew 3y ago
> It is an interesting thing to think about, I have friends that use Windows that are shocked that I willingly chose to get an external trackpad when I use my Mac as desktop. external mouse is much more fun to use
benhurmarcel 3y ago
> I have friends that use Windows that are shocked that I willingly chose to get an external trackpad when I use my Mac as desktop I use an external Apple Magic trackpad on a Windows desktop. It's a good and smooth experience.

asdff 3y ago

>I believe that the 3D Touch tech that was once in the iPhone is the same tech that is in the track pad and the Apple Watch 3D touch was only in the iphones for a few years, it was too expensive so they cut it in favor of the haptic touch they have now. The macbook trackpad is nice but honestly I prefer the old 2012 one they had with the actual physical button you could tweak the pressure of with a screwdriver. It seems a lot more ergonomic to have some actual give in the device instead of just jamming your finger onto an unmoving slab of glass. You don't even realize how hard it is you are pressing onto these things until you try testing your muscle memory with the computer off; its sort of alarming.

nerdjon 3y ago
I thought 3D Touch was cut because no one seemed to know the functionality existed, it had a discoverability issue. It was kinda tacked onto iOS unlike WatchOS where it was part of how the entire OS was designed. Which I always found unfortunate, it had some really nice uses like not needing to wait when holding down for the OS to register and being able to pull up a context menu, slide up, and release to select the menu item all in one motion. I was sad when it was removed, but I also get it. I get the idea of a physical trackpad, and I do remember when that was the thing. I honestly don't even notice that the trackpad is not physically moving. It simulates the feel enough that if I didn't know it was not moving I would think it was. You are right it is shocking when you try to use it while it's off and it's like... oh right. But I just am not in that situation often. (However when Mac freezes and it "clicks" multiple times since it did not properly register ealrier, that's honestly kinda wild... but infrequent). But I also like not needing to think, I need to press on a specific part of the trackpad for it to properly register. I vividly remember only the bottom half really registering and the higher you went the shallower the press was.
iknowstuff 3y ago
I’m sorry what You can adjust the pressing force required in software, and the glass does in fact depress under your finger. It’s cushioned - that’s how they detect pressure.
- jxdxbx 3y ago
  My Apple trackpads don’t click when they are powered off. It just feels like pressing a piece of glass.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jandrese 3y ago
  You can also detect pressure by just measuring how much of your finger is touching the pad. A small spot means light pressure, a large spot where your skin is flatted out more against the glass is higher pressure. In practice these kinds of measurements are fairly tricky so they don't get used very much.
  - seltzered_ 3y ago
    This. If you ever look at apples raw input touch privateframework it provides enough data for the relative direction/size as well as has some encoded states to at least detect between a very faint touch and a finger on the trackpad. This I think goes back to the first unibody MacBooks from around 2008.
    - wtallis 3y ago
      The multitouch trackpads actually showed up in the early 2008 MacBook Pros that were the last ones before switching to the unibody enclosure (IIRC the keyboard/trackpad parts could be retrofitted into 2007 MacBook Pros). The early 2008 models still had a separate physical button at the bottom of the trackpad. The late 2008 models got rid of the button and made the whole trackpad hinged at the top to act as a button. Then in 2015 they introduced the Force Touch trackpad that fixed the awkwardness of needing more force to click the further up the trackpad you went.

TonyTrapp 3y ago

> Even more interesting is when I see my partner try to do something on my Mac using a trackpad, he seems... apprehensive? Like he is so afraid of doing the wrong thing and for me this trackpad has never done something I didn't want it to do. Like without even thinking about it while I was re-reading this comment, I had fingers just resting on my trackpad. I think I'll never "get" drag&drop on MacBook touchpads. Every time I try to do it, I accidentally open the file info, or the touchpad is too small to actually reach the place where I want to drop the file to. It is absolutely doing things I don't want it to do. I absolutely dread having to use the touchpad. (that applies to other laptops too, though)

jxdxbx 3y ago
I love drag-and-dropping to arbitrary locations in the Finder using spring-loaded folders. I think it is a bit tricky…if you don’t know the trick.
nerdjon 3y ago
Since you mention the touchpad being too small, are you trying to drag and drop with one finger or multiple? What I always just do is click with my thumb and move around with my other fingers. As long as my thumb stays down it stays selected. Then just a few quick swipes with my finger gets whatever it is I am selecting where I want to go. Same works for windows and anything you click and drag. Admittedly there is a quirk here that I have noticed, if for some reason I click and try to drag with the same finger, I then can't switch to dragging around with a different finger. But personally I treat my thumb just resting no the track pad as my click finger and move/gesture with my other fingers.
- TonyTrapp 3y ago
  Thanks for the hint, I will give that a try.
- prewett 3y ago
  I find it easier to rest my second finger and drag with the third finger as I don't have to twist my hand that way.

pmontra 3y ago

If I'll ever use a desktop again I also want an external touchpad and I want to place it in front of the keyboard like on a laptop. But you wrote trackpad. It's it the one with the ball? Probably not because you also wrote about multitouch. So, which trackpad do you use?

layer8 3y ago
Touchpad and trackpad are synonyms. Trackpad is the older term.
bschwindHN 3y ago
I'm a 100% trackpad user as well, and I also got into mechanical keyboards so my setups always look like this now: https://imgur.com/a/pmRO9r9 https://imgur.com/a/pmRO9r9 That one is an older magic trackpad, if it ever dies I'll upgrade to the newer one.
- pmontra 3y ago
  What's the two keyboards layout for? At first I suspected that they are two different keyboards, let's say US and some national layout, but they are both US. Maybe the black one is not connected and it's there only for the picture? Anyway, that's the keyboard/touchpad layout I would use too. The only difference is that I like touchpads with physical buttons. Three of them because I use Linux and pasting text with the middle button is great.
  - bschwindHN 3y ago
    Ah yeah, the extra keyboard was just there for the photo. I designed the PCB so I'm kinda proud of it :) I agree that physical buttons are nice. The older magic trackpads actually are physical buttons, but they're on the underside of the trackpad, so the disadvantage there is you don't feel the button on the surface.

mewpmewp2 3y ago

My work laptop is a macbook and I have been using it for over 5 years, but I still can't get a handle on it, even for a right click. I am not sure how people find MacOS so good. It just constantly goes against my intution and muscle memory. I also hate how I have to constantly turn of the mouse acceleration at random times using CLI.

windowsrookie 3y ago
Right click is just tap with two fingers. What issue are you having?
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  You are right it works, but I guess I somehow usually expect it to happen in a lighter way, without the actual click going through. And when I do it, it feels weird to me. It feels like I have to exert more force than I would find "pleasurable" or "intuitive" for a right click. Like I either expect there to be a button that I have to actually press, or if it's a touchpad it feels like it should work with a lighter tap. It feels like having to press too hard for something that doesn't actually seem to go physically down enough. Another thing that feels really weird to me is the cmd button location. On windows I would use ctrl + c and v, it's easy to use my pinky finger, but with mac I have to twist my thumb and index finger. I don't know. I just can't get into it. All of those little actions that are smooth for me otherwise feel like quite a chore and a turn off.
  - al_borland 3y ago
    In the settings you can set how much force is needed, light, medium, or firm. Try changing it to light (if you haven't already). You can also enable tap-to-click there if you prefer the lightest touch. The settings area also shows all the various multitouch things that can be done, which is convenient place to learn them, or get a reminder. In the settings you can also flip the modifier keys around, like control and command. Though that could lead to other weird things like trying to do control+c in the terminal. I usually use my ring and index, or middle finger and index. If you're using pinky for control, why switch to the thumb when you can use a closer finger that would be over command with your hand in the same position? I will say the command+c does get a bit cramped, but I think command+v feels better than the stretch of control+v.

matternous 3y ago

I got an external trackpad recently too for my Mac, but it feels noticeably less responsive than the one built into my MacBook, even when connected with a USB cable.

kristofferR 3y ago

> It has to be a combination of software and hardware. Likely shared software and hardware. You need decent hardware to be sure, but Asashi Linux on Macbooks is a horrific experience, unless you plug in a mouse. It seems like it is mostly software.

fddrdplktrew 3y ago

> It is an interesting thing to think about, I have friends that use Windows that are shocked that I willingly chose to get an external trackpad when I use my Mac as desktop. external mouse is much more fun to use

benhurmarcel 3y ago

> I have friends that use Windows that are shocked that I willingly chose to get an external trackpad when I use my Mac as desktop I use an external Apple Magic trackpad on a Windows desktop. It's a good and smooth experience.