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What is this I don't even.. It sounds like you're considering a life of crime. Probably thinking about how you could be like that botnet guy on Reddit. Getting

What is this I don't even.. It sounds like you're considering a life of crime. Probably thinking about how you could be like that botnet guy on Reddit. Getting money without working is a nice thought, after all. You know, the "ethical reactions" stem from that guy doing evil things. He knows he's being evil but doesn't care. Some people find that appalling. For him, it's just an easy way to make money, and the fact that he produces no value to society at large is irrelevant. He even gets to work on challenging problems! In fact, what he's doing is quite similar to working for the financial industry, doing HFT or whatever. It's clearly wrong, and clearly harmful to mankind, but it's easy money, so ethics are thrown out the window. It is generally easier to make money by scamming/abusing people than by doing something valuable. That doesn't mean you should.

netrus 14y ago
I do not claim to be a fan of HFT, but I wouldn't say it's on the same level as stealing CC data.
intended 14y ago
Your point is well served without the analogy of heft and the financial industry being added. Matter of fact, I assume that it will likely be met with discussion that shifts the focus onto those examples which are irrelevant to the greater topic at hand. There have been several in depth discussions and posts on both hacker news and reddit which comprehensively make the case for both.
driverdan 14y ago
The thing that most people don't realize is that it isn't as easy as most people think or how he makes it sound. It's very similar to building a passive income product. You invest a lot of work up front for an "easy" payout later. It may only take him an hour or two a day to manage the network but I doubt that's all the time he spends on it. From reading the AMA and my own personal experience I bet this guy spends much of his time researching tools, improving his code, testing AV software, and browsing / contributing to "industry" forums. This isn't even taking into account the time he spent upfront before it made him any money. It may be something he enjoys but it's not as easy as clicking a few buttons every day and watching the money pile up. It's sad to think that all this time could be spent building a legitimate product instead of something like this.
- jacquesm 14y ago
  Wait until he gets those handcuffs on, then we'll talk about how high the investment in time really was. Next up: I thought I was hot stuff, now I'm a convict, ask me anything.
  - adbge 14y ago
    I think your faith in the justice system (especially considering the technical nature of this redditor's activities) is unfounded.
    - jacquesm 14y ago
      This guy is begging to get caught with the amount of attention he draws. It's a matter of time.
      - pbhjpbhj 14y ago
        Do you think anyone in a governmental capacity will take this Reddit and start an investigation? I'd like to think so, but sadly doubt it. There might be a couple of vigilante efforts though.
muyuu 14y ago
I work in the financial industry and I'm very convinced that my work is not harmful by any stretch of the imagination. In the past I've left well paid positions out of moral issues, in different industries. For instance, when my algorithms were getting patented, or I was increasingly made to work in .NET. People have different views. However, stealing CCs and massively screwing over random people... you cannot possibly put that in the same breadth.
- white_devil 14y ago
  > I work in the financial industry and I'm very convinced that my work is not harmful by any stretch of the imagination. Well duh? Of course you are. It's you working for the financial industry, after all. We could debate this all day without getting anywhere. It's easy for you to blow smoke up everyone's ass, pretending your work is beneficial because it provides "liquidity" or whatever. You can confuse us laymen with fancy terms we don't understand. But in case you're being sincere, here's something to peruse: http://maxkeiser.com/ http://maxkeiser.com/ and http://zerohedge.com http://zerohedge.com You work for an industry whose raison d'être is making money with money. This is vastly different from producing something of value.
  - muyuu 14y ago
    > Well duh? Of course you are. It's you working for the financial industry, after all. Not-so-obviously, if I had qualms about my job I wouldn't be doing it. Some people are for sale, I'm not. > But in case you're being sincere, here's something to peruse: http://maxkeiser.com/ http://maxkeiser.com/ and http://zerohedge.com http://zerohedge.com I know these sites. They're rather juvenile but sometimes there's stuff of real value there. There are crooks in finance, and everywhere else, which doesn't mean "finance is bad" by definition. > You work for an industry whose raison d'être is making money with money. This is vastly different from producing something of value. There is nothing bad about making money from financial services. If you stretch it a bit, you can call it "making money with money" the same as you can argue that the sole reason for any imaginable job is making money. It's not.
    - 14y ago

netrus 14y ago

I do not claim to be a fan of HFT, but I wouldn't say it's on the same level as stealing CC data.

intended 14y ago

Your point is well served without the analogy of heft and the financial industry being added. Matter of fact, I assume that it will likely be met with discussion that shifts the focus onto those examples which are irrelevant to the greater topic at hand. There have been several in depth discussions and posts on both hacker news and reddit which comprehensively make the case for both.

driverdan 14y ago

The thing that most people don't realize is that it isn't as easy as most people think or how he makes it sound. It's very similar to building a passive income product. You invest a lot of work up front for an "easy" payout later. It may only take him an hour or two a day to manage the network but I doubt that's all the time he spends on it. From reading the AMA and my own personal experience I bet this guy spends much of his time researching tools, improving his code, testing AV software, and browsing / contributing to "industry" forums. This isn't even taking into account the time he spent upfront before it made him any money. It may be something he enjoys but it's not as easy as clicking a few buttons every day and watching the money pile up. It's sad to think that all this time could be spent building a legitimate product instead of something like this.

jacquesm 14y ago
Wait until he gets those handcuffs on, then we'll talk about how high the investment in time really was. Next up: I thought I was hot stuff, now I'm a convict, ask me anything.
- adbge 14y ago
  I think your faith in the justice system (especially considering the technical nature of this redditor's activities) is unfounded.
  - jacquesm 14y ago
    This guy is begging to get caught with the amount of attention he draws. It's a matter of time.
    - pbhjpbhj 14y ago
      Do you think anyone in a governmental capacity will take this Reddit and start an investigation? I'd like to think so, but sadly doubt it. There might be a couple of vigilante efforts though.

muyuu 14y ago

I work in the financial industry and I'm very convinced that my work is not harmful by any stretch of the imagination. In the past I've left well paid positions out of moral issues, in different industries. For instance, when my algorithms were getting patented, or I was increasingly made to work in .NET. People have different views. However, stealing CCs and massively screwing over random people... you cannot possibly put that in the same breadth.

white_devil 14y ago
> I work in the financial industry and I'm very convinced that my work is not harmful by any stretch of the imagination. Well duh? Of course you are. It's you working for the financial industry, after all. We could debate this all day without getting anywhere. It's easy for you to blow smoke up everyone's ass, pretending your work is beneficial because it provides "liquidity" or whatever. You can confuse us laymen with fancy terms we don't understand. But in case you're being sincere, here's something to peruse: http://maxkeiser.com/ http://maxkeiser.com/ and http://zerohedge.com http://zerohedge.com You work for an industry whose raison d'être is making money with money. This is vastly different from producing something of value.
- muyuu 14y ago
  > Well duh? Of course you are. It's you working for the financial industry, after all. Not-so-obviously, if I had qualms about my job I wouldn't be doing it. Some people are for sale, I'm not. > But in case you're being sincere, here's something to peruse: http://maxkeiser.com/ http://maxkeiser.com/ and http://zerohedge.com http://zerohedge.com I know these sites. They're rather juvenile but sometimes there's stuff of real value there. There are crooks in finance, and everywhere else, which doesn't mean "finance is bad" by definition. > You work for an industry whose raison d'être is making money with money. This is vastly different from producing something of value. There is nothing bad about making money from financial services. If you stretch it a bit, you can call it "making money with money" the same as you can argue that the sole reason for any imaginable job is making money. It's not.
  - 14y ago