5 ms·

I feel like this was released just yesterday and now they are ending the support. Why?

refulgentis 3y ago
Really good q I'm shocked too. Riffing: Without Play Store it's not viable/interesting. Also, it's so. much. work. keeping up with Android releases, even inside Google. Wear and ChromeOS are always a version or two behind, and vast majority of the time, it is two versions. If Google internally wasn't helpful enough to each other, I can't imagine they played nice with Microsoft on this. The broad business war means there's no incentive for VPs to drive it. Technical challenges via CTS* mean there's no incentive for 1-3 steps up the org chart to enable it. The narrow-er business challenge of not having the Play Store is the final nail for any cooperation. I don't think Google is interested in proactively collaborating unless you do CTS. * Android's CTS, compatibility test suite, has to be passed to get the Play Store, and broadly, it is organized around individual device launches, rather than a subsystem than can run on any hardware. (n.b. I worked on Wear then Android at Google, 6 years total)
- _cenw 3y ago
  Weirdly enough I had to do the compatibility hoops for Waydroid, but not the commonly used WSA+MindTheGapps distro.
- jjpprrrr 3y ago
  I could be wrong, but I thought passing CTS is only one of the steps to be able to advertise a device as powered by android. To get Play Store which requires GMS, there are additioinal test suites like GTS.
- viliml 3y ago
  > Without Play Store it's not viable/interesting. Just install a version of WSA that has the Play Store. Take Magisk along the way too because why not.
- itsTyrion 3y ago
  What’s n.b.?
zoeysmithe 3y ago
I imagine not only is this a technical challenge in general, but the "best" apps require google integration and google is giving devs and big companies incentives to require the google play libraries, which this can't use. This has been google's main dirty trick since the beginning, which is why you don't see much competition in the android space. Its a few big licensed players. Niche, homebrew, emulated, etc players aren't going to get google certified. Android has just become MS from the 90s. Google is a crony capitalist tough guy as much as MS or Oracle or Apple, it just has better PR as being "friendly" and "open." MS also is clearly bribing/paying for big apps to come to its Windows platform via the Windows store, so why bother with this Android middle-man that is all trouble? Eventually the big apps got to Windows Store and that's really all that matters to 90% of customers. Everything about this project was doomed from the start. I think MS just has given up on apps and mobile and leaves that to Apple or Samsung, who are now just caretakers for ios and android at this point and mobile becoming a low/no profit commodity in the long run, outside of payment processing.
- bonton89 3y ago
  Is the Windows store popular now? Aside from Microsoft dog fooding I didn't get the impression it was very much used even after all these years.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    Last time I checked the MS store it was mainly bikini wallpapers. Not kidding ...
    - bikson 3y ago
      Good enough.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Bikini wallpapers?! Oh my god, that's disgusting! Where?
      - 3y ago
causi 3y ago
It was useful as a way to pry people away from Windows 10.
stillold 3y ago
They created a huge buzz around it, took over a year to release and when they did so, released it to the wrong Insider ring, so everyone who was on the fast ring specifically for and waiting for it had to re-install. I believe, without any proof, that this is why they had to redo their rings and what they meant shortly after. Then there is everything else people have mentioned, with them being completely reliant on Amazon's store but requiring "something" where most of the apps that are on Amazon's mobile store weren't available.
- dboreham 3y ago
  I ended up in the right ring to get it on ARM, and actually used it (Kindle app on Surface Pro X). But that was the only app I used. The other one I really wanted was O'Reilly Safari/learning, their e-reader. But of course the Amazon app store is going to shut down before they allow a competitor's app on there.
creshal 3y ago
I get a feeling whatever deal they had with Amazon over their app store fell through. Nothing else I can think of really makes sense to end support so suddenly.

Really good q I'm shocked too. Riffing: Without Play Store it's not viable/interesting. Also, it's so. much. work. keeping up with Android releases, even inside Google. Wear and ChromeOS are always a version or two behind, and vast majority of the time, it is two versions. If Google internally wasn't helpful enough to each other, I can't imagine they played nice with Microsoft on this. The broad business war means there's no incentive for VPs to drive it. Technical challenges via CTS* mean there's no incentive for 1-3 steps up the org chart to enable it. The narrow-er business challenge of not having the Play Store is the final nail for any cooperation. I don't think Google is interested in proactively collaborating unless you do CTS. * Android's CTS, compatibility test suite, has to be passed to get the Play Store, and broadly, it is organized around individual device launches, rather than a subsystem than can run on any hardware. (n.b. I worked on Wear then Android at Google, 6 years total)

_cenw 3y ago
Weirdly enough I had to do the compatibility hoops for Waydroid, but not the commonly used WSA+MindTheGapps distro.
jjpprrrr 3y ago
I could be wrong, but I thought passing CTS is only one of the steps to be able to advertise a device as powered by android. To get Play Store which requires GMS, there are additioinal test suites like GTS.
viliml 3y ago
> Without Play Store it's not viable/interesting. Just install a version of WSA that has the Play Store. Take Magisk along the way too because why not.
itsTyrion 3y ago
What’s n.b.?

zoeysmithe 3y ago

I imagine not only is this a technical challenge in general, but the "best" apps require google integration and google is giving devs and big companies incentives to require the google play libraries, which this can't use. This has been google's main dirty trick since the beginning, which is why you don't see much competition in the android space. Its a few big licensed players. Niche, homebrew, emulated, etc players aren't going to get google certified. Android has just become MS from the 90s. Google is a crony capitalist tough guy as much as MS or Oracle or Apple, it just has better PR as being "friendly" and "open." MS also is clearly bribing/paying for big apps to come to its Windows platform via the Windows store, so why bother with this Android middle-man that is all trouble? Eventually the big apps got to Windows Store and that's really all that matters to 90% of customers. Everything about this project was doomed from the start. I think MS just has given up on apps and mobile and leaves that to Apple or Samsung, who are now just caretakers for ios and android at this point and mobile becoming a low/no profit commodity in the long run, outside of payment processing.

bonton89 3y ago
Is the Windows store popular now? Aside from Microsoft dog fooding I didn't get the impression it was very much used even after all these years.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  Last time I checked the MS store it was mainly bikini wallpapers. Not kidding ...
  - bikson 3y ago
    Good enough.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Bikini wallpapers?! Oh my god, that's disgusting! Where?
    - 3y ago

causi 3y ago

It was useful as a way to pry people away from Windows 10.

stillold 3y ago

They created a huge buzz around it, took over a year to release and when they did so, released it to the wrong Insider ring, so everyone who was on the fast ring specifically for and waiting for it had to re-install. I believe, without any proof, that this is why they had to redo their rings and what they meant shortly after. Then there is everything else people have mentioned, with them being completely reliant on Amazon's store but requiring "something" where most of the apps that are on Amazon's mobile store weren't available.

dboreham 3y ago
I ended up in the right ring to get it on ARM, and actually used it (Kindle app on Surface Pro X). But that was the only app I used. The other one I really wanted was O'Reilly Safari/learning, their e-reader. But of course the Amazon app store is going to shut down before they allow a competitor's app on there.

creshal 3y ago

I get a feeling whatever deal they had with Amazon over their app store fell through. Nothing else I can think of really makes sense to end support so suddenly.