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If I'm not using Nvidia hardware, and I don't use Nvidia drivers, and I haven't agreed to their EULA then why would I care? Emulation is legally protected both

If I'm not using Nvidia hardware, and I don't use Nvidia drivers, and I haven't agreed to their EULA then why would I care? Emulation is legally protected both explicitly and through legal precedence. The replication of APIs for compatibility purposes has been argued to the US Supreme Court and found to not be copyrightable. At least within some pretty broad scope. IANAL, but I fail to see what legal basis Nvidia is relying on. For a single user or company who owns no Nvidia hardware this feels moot. For a company with existing Nvidia hardware I could see them having an argument, kinda. But wouldn't that be squarely in the anti-competitive behavior wheelhouse?

AndrewKemendo 3y ago
> But wouldn't that be squarely in the anti-competitive behavior wheelhouse? Precisely why they are making that statement. The goal is to threaten people who attempt to avoid CUDA
jsheard 3y ago
> If I'm not using Nvidia hardware, and I don't use Nvidia drivers, and I haven't agreed to their EULA then why would I care? If the CUDA software you want to run on ZLUDA contains first-party Nvidia libraries, which it usually does, you have to care about how those dependencies are licensed.
- TehCorwiz 3y ago
  Yeah, I commented below at someone who mentioned that. I wasn't aware that people were distributing Nvidia binary libraries with their apps.
Cheer2171 3y ago
> If I'm not using Nvidia hardware, and I don't use Nvidia drivers, and I haven't agreed to their EULA then why would I care? So in your entire life, you have never downloaded an Nvidia driver and clicked through the EULA? Once you agree, you've agreed.
- throwing_away 3y ago
  That is not how contract law works...
- OtomotO 3y ago
  Even if they had, they agreed to a specific version, not all future versions. That's why the EULA comes up again and again if it changes. Or am I totally wrong here?
- randomname93857 3y ago
  But does that matter? if someone tried a software or a service and then terminated or quit that, then does that end-user agreement still applies in perpetuity? Let say I cancel a cable TV subscription or quit MySpaces, do I still really bound by their EULA?
- croes 3y ago
  If you don't own Nvidia hardware why should download an Nvidia driver?
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Because Nvidia's libraries, whether acquired through them or otherwise, are (currently) required for this trick to work.
    - croes 3y ago
      You can get the libraries without installer, so no installer, no EULA, no acceptance of it.
- tarsinge 3y ago
  I don’t think agreeing or not to EULA has any value in EU. At least in France were consumer rights are codified and so an EULA cannot limit these legal rights.
underdeserver 3y ago
Hah, I wonder if they're big enough now for the European Commission to fine them over this.
- adventured 3y ago
  $50+ billion in expected annual operating income going forward ($13b in the latest quarter with rapid growth). More EU budget money coming right up.
- jraph 3y ago
  Europe, the fine continent :-)
  - fddrdplktrew 3y ago
    isnt Asia part of Europe?
    - jraph 3y ago
      No, however Asia and Europe would be parts of Eurasia, or of Afro-Eurasia. My joke would be more accurate referring to the EU :-)
braiamp 3y ago
EULA or not, it would fail anti-competitive laws. In the US they also avoided the Copyright question by saying it was fair use.
rezonant 3y ago
The application developer has to agree to the terms of the CUDA toolkit. If ZLUDA or other mechanisms require the developer to opt in, that could cause a problem. Perhaps someone more familiar can let us know if that's how it works?

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

> But wouldn't that be squarely in the anti-competitive behavior wheelhouse? Precisely why they are making that statement. The goal is to threaten people who attempt to avoid CUDA

jsheard 3y ago

> If I'm not using Nvidia hardware, and I don't use Nvidia drivers, and I haven't agreed to their EULA then why would I care? If the CUDA software you want to run on ZLUDA contains first-party Nvidia libraries, which it usually does, you have to care about how those dependencies are licensed.

TehCorwiz 3y ago
Yeah, I commented below at someone who mentioned that. I wasn't aware that people were distributing Nvidia binary libraries with their apps.

Cheer2171 3y ago

> If I'm not using Nvidia hardware, and I don't use Nvidia drivers, and I haven't agreed to their EULA then why would I care? So in your entire life, you have never downloaded an Nvidia driver and clicked through the EULA? Once you agree, you've agreed.

throwing_away 3y ago
That is not how contract law works...
OtomotO 3y ago
Even if they had, they agreed to a specific version, not all future versions. That's why the EULA comes up again and again if it changes. Or am I totally wrong here?
randomname93857 3y ago
But does that matter? if someone tried a software or a service and then terminated or quit that, then does that end-user agreement still applies in perpetuity? Let say I cancel a cable TV subscription or quit MySpaces, do I still really bound by their EULA?
croes 3y ago
If you don't own Nvidia hardware why should download an Nvidia driver?
- fragmede 3y ago
  Because Nvidia's libraries, whether acquired through them or otherwise, are (currently) required for this trick to work.
  - croes 3y ago
    You can get the libraries without installer, so no installer, no EULA, no acceptance of it.
tarsinge 3y ago
I don’t think agreeing or not to EULA has any value in EU. At least in France were consumer rights are codified and so an EULA cannot limit these legal rights.

underdeserver 3y ago

Hah, I wonder if they're big enough now for the European Commission to fine them over this.

adventured 3y ago
$50+ billion in expected annual operating income going forward ($13b in the latest quarter with rapid growth). More EU budget money coming right up.
jraph 3y ago
Europe, the fine continent :-)
- fddrdplktrew 3y ago
  isnt Asia part of Europe?
  - jraph 3y ago
    No, however Asia and Europe would be parts of Eurasia, or of Afro-Eurasia. My joke would be more accurate referring to the EU :-)

braiamp 3y ago

EULA or not, it would fail anti-competitive laws. In the US they also avoided the Copyright question by saying it was fair use.

rezonant 3y ago

The application developer has to agree to the terms of the CUDA toolkit. If ZLUDA or other mechanisms require the developer to opt in, that could cause a problem. Perhaps someone more familiar can let us know if that's how it works?