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I'm still very bummed with Apple's strategy in using # of supported external displays as a feature to gate laptops. I had to return a decently spec-ced M3 Macb
by skadamat 3y ago
I'm still very bummed with Apple's strategy in using # of supported external displays as a feature to gate laptops.
I had to return a decently spec-ced M3 Macbook PRO 14" because it only supported 1 display (base M3) and pay more for M3 pro even though I don't need the extra horsepower.
And now the base M3 Air's support 2 displays? This is wild
- znpy 3y agothat's (quite literally) the price you pay in order to stay in the apple ecosystem. More-than-one-display is pretty much the standard on regular (non-apple) computers: you can drive as much as your system can sustain.
- ajross 3y agoIt's on-chip silicon, not a marketing feature. This kind of product design is just really hard. Mask sets get well into the billions of dollars, you can't just assemble a list of features as if they're all free. You need to decide upfront, often years in advance, what feature you think people will want to buy for the market you think you'll find yourself in. There are no easy answers. But just in general, Intel has always prioritized lots of I/O flexibility on its chips. If you look at the datasheets there have always been dozens and dozens of units on every SKU that are never plumbed out to ports on the device. Three or four display outputs, six or eight USB controllers, stuff like that. Apple is the opposite: they won't include something if they aren't absolutely sure they need it. So after the shift from x86 to Apple silicon, laptop users are feeling a squeeze on I/O that used to seem "free".
- skadamat 3y agoIn principle I agree. But the M3 chips are similar for the M3 Macbook Pro and M3 Macbook Air. The PRO laptop is the one that only supports 1 display while the AIR supports 2 with the lid closed. The M3 Pro has more space and is more ... pro?
- threeseed 3y agoApple already said that a software update is coming to support dual displays for MacBook Pro.
- tylerhou 3y agoEven if there are technical limitations that prevent Apple from adding more I/O easily, as a consumer it feels like artificial segmentation/limitation. Apart from the initial M1 MacBook Pro release, it feels like most products Apple has released in the last few years has always been missing one or two features, and the next release happens to have that feature. E.g. the first M1 Air did not have MagSafe even though the Pros did, and then Apple included MagSafe in M2 Air, but it didn't support multiple displays; now Apple is including multiple displays in M3 Air. It feels awfully convenient that each generation conveniently has a nontrivial feature upgrade.... Apple has less incentive to make each generation "complete" -- by delaying features (more) consumers will feel obligated to upgrade per generation.
- tyingq 3y agoIt does seem odd, though, to brand a laptop as "PRO" and limit it to 2 displays, then release a non-PRO device that can handle more. Edit: Better wording, I suppose, that the non-PRO supports two external monitors with the lid closed, the PRO supports 1. Still an odd overall offering/branding.
- dataworm 3y agoThe MBA still can't handle more than 2 displays, though. It only supports 2 displays when it's closed.
- 3y ago
- captn3m0 3y agoI am hoping the limit is just a MacOS thing, like how MST1.2(?) was supported on my old MBA(2015) hardware but not available on MacOS. I could Daisy chain DisplayLink monitors on Linux, but MacOS wouldn’t let me, and I was limited to a single monitor. I use Asahi Linux on M2 now, and the USBC display support isn’t done yet, but I am hoping it would be better than MacOS.
- dataworm 3y agoUnfortunately it isn't. There are only two display controllers in the M1/2/3 and that can't be worked around in software. MST won't work in Asahi Linux because it's not present in the hardware. It worked on x86 Macs because the GPU supported it.
- nerdjon 3y agoIt sucks since the M series laptops have been amazing, with this one glaring problem. I have a great M2 pro machine, but officially it can only support 2 external monitors. I should be able to close my screen and power 3. I can do this with a dock so it's not a resources problem. I am curious what is different between the Air and the Pro that the Air can power 2 external monitors (it does say when the lid is closed) and the Pro can only power 1 regardless. Or is this a software update and the Pro page just has not been updated. I keep hoping that this is a problem that is only temporary and eventually it will be removed or as time goes on each series can run 1 more monitor or something.
- sciencesama 3y agoI fixed this by using this dock Lenovo ThinkPad Thunderbolt 4 Workstation Dock - DK2131
- nerdjon 3y agoI fixed my issue as well with a dock from UGreen and the DisplayLink software. Just unfortunate I had to do it.
- dodslaser 3y agoI tried a DisplayLink dock once with my M1 Max MBP. It was incredibly laggy, pegged my cpu at 40%, and didn't let me set the correct resolution/scaling level for either of my monitors (horizontal 4k 32" and a vertical 4k 27", nothing exotic). A TB4 dock fixes most problems, but I have to hack the EDID to disable YCbCr and force RGB, or the colors look like absolute shit. The external monitors still look significantly worse under macOS than either Windows or Linux, and I have no idea why. External display handling is easily the worst part of using a Mac for me.
- askonomm 3y ago> External display handling is easily the worst part of using a Mac for me. Using more than is explicitly mentioned that is supported, you mean? I mean yeah, duh.
- bahmboo 3y agoKeep in mind 2 displays are only supported with the lid closed. So the only change is that now you can use an external monitor in lieu of the internal display.
- jcynix 3y agoLid closed? Depends on the exact Macbook version ... The lid of my MacBook Pro (M1 pro, 16-inch, 2021) is open and actively displays stuff and additionally two external LG 4K monitors are directly connected to it via USB-C. The third USB-C port is in use for external disks, but maybe I should try sometime to connect a third monitor ...? But nevertheless, Apple's hardware strategy sucks ...
- Tagbert 3y agothat is what a lot of people have been asking for. Lid closed = 2 external monitors.
- jm4 3y agoI think even worse than that is that they still only put 8 GB RAM in the base and middle options.
- eurekin 3y agoThat's so extremely backwards in relation to everything else it's mind boggling. 16 gb being considered and priced at premium, where I had a single chrome tab eating 3gb easily few time's recently.
- superb_dev 3y agoWhat website were you on? 3gb for a Chrome tab is just plain unacceptable in most cases
- eurekin 3y agohttps://belladoreai.github.io/llama-tokenizer-js/example-demo/build/ https://belladoreai.github.io/llama-tokenizer-js/example-dem... where I measured tokens in my requests before sending things to openai API to ballpark the cost
- threeseed 3y agoSo stop using Chrome. There are other browsers that are far more memory efficient.
- Dah00n 3y agoBrowserS? I can only think of one (and it isn't Safari).
- eurekin 3y agoThat solves the browser. What about colima vm for docker? Intellij, gradle daemon, android studio, xcode, electron apps, android virtual device, slack, spring boot apps, iMovie, Davinci Resolve, python notebooks? Phones now have more than 8gb of RAM
- seam_carver 3y agoThe m3 mbp is getting macos update to match MBA m3 display support, so you'll get 2 external displays with lid closed too. https://9to5mac.com/2024/03/04/14-inch-m3-macbook-pro-multi-display-support/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/03/04/14-inch-m3-macbook-pro-multi-...
- system2 3y agoI can do 4 monitors with my lid closed with my Dell XPS 13. It is crazy to see an Apple Laptop that costs $2000+ cannot do a laptop that costs $1000. People with money really don't know how to shop.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- wilg 3y agoIt is also possible they consider other factors besides one additional external monitor.
- DavidPastrnak 3y ago* $1,499
- system2 3y agoFor the crappy base model. + Tax + Apple accessories like adaptors and docks.
- rad_gruchalski 3y agoReally? I just recently tried out (and took a photo of) an m2 macbook pro with 2k displays attached, lid open and screen mirroring on. 4 screens with 60“ tv in the distance. Would that really not work on an m3 mac?
- wmf 3y agoThe M2 supports two native display outputs. If you have more than that you must be using janky Displaylink dongles.
- android42 3y agoStuff like this is why I can not switch to Apple, I would not expect or even think to look up which Macbooks can support at least 2 displays if they otherwise had decent enough specs for them. Who knows what else I am failing to consider? I don't want to waste time migrating to a new system, only to find out I need to return/resell it, or later down the road find out another arbitrary/artificial limitation Apple has set that I either have to find a work around for or suck up until I can switch machines again if none exist. This is unfortunate since there are some features that have made it very tempting to switch.
- Tagbert 3y agoThey just changed it so that, with the laptop lid closed, the M3 Airs and MBP support two external monitors.
- brocket 3y agoI feel like I accidentally discovered a huge hack for this by upgrading to a 49" DQHD monitor. It's the exact same resolution as two 27" 1440p monitors so it's like any Apple silicon chip has always supported dual external displays. And it was a much better overall value compared to buying 2 displays + over-specced macbook.
- miles 3y agoDo you mind sharing the monitor model? Found the Samsung LC49G97TSSNXDC for $999[1], but also a reddit thread about some issues with it and a 2019 MacBook Pro[2] (which is admittedly Intel rather than Apple silicon-based). [1] https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-odyssey-49-1000r-curved-dual-qhd-240hz-1ms-freesync-g-sync-gaming-monitor-black/6425569.p?skuId=6425569 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-odyssey-49-1000r-curved... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/ultrawidemasterrace/comments/mb9vnv/unable_to_get_full_5120x1440_resolution_on/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ultrawidemasterrace/comments/mb9vnv...
- brocket 3y agoSamsung CRG9 (previous sale at Costco for $749, currently $849) connected through HP USB-C Dock G5 (models are confusing, exact one I bought was https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RGC9QSL/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RGC9QSL/). I'm using original base M1 Macbook (currently $749 at Costco) and have had zero issues with the monitor. Without the dock you might need a USB-C to DisplayPort adapter like mentioned in reddit comments you linked to, but I already had the dock from a previous workstation and everything just worked when I plugged it in. Considering minor Macbook upgrades can get you into >$1500 price territory pretty easily I think this a fantastic value. If you wanted to buy my full setup right now it would be $849 + $749 + $145 = $1745 but you're getting “dual” monitors and dock that can be reused with any modern machine, making it easy to switch between work and play. I can even plug my Steam Deck into it. :) (No affiliation with any of these products!)
- Cu3PO42 3y agoI have two Samsung Ultrawides, one at home, one at work. They both work perfectly fine with my M2 Max MBP, including at 120Hz. I have connected them directly and via a Lenovo TB4 docking station. No issues either way. One thing you should be aware of is that having two seperate monitors can be an advantage for Window management on macOS. With two monitors, I can swap spaces on one of them and keep everything as is on the other. With only one it's not that easy.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoApple will do anything it can to "gate". If it can identify something people will pay more for, while not quite putting off most people, it'll do it, no matter how mad. So if most people think 8GB is fine for a laptop, they'll buy it, and everyone else pays through the nose for more. Most people only want one extra screen? That's what you get on the base machine and you must pay (alot) for more. If one day most people need two, then you'll get two. Apple seem to spend a lot of design time on how to extract the most money out of those willing to pay, no matter how annoying it is.
- anfelor 3y agoYou can use more external displays using a dock and DisplayLink Manager though. I got three extra monitors to run on my M1 Air with no problems that way.
- crowcroft 3y agoDoes the M3 MBP get more displays that a MacBook Air with an M3? I thought it was a hardware limitation with the processor.