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> Apple has argued they do not sell a piece of hardware, but a platform. It includes hardware, software, and a marketplace (like a video game console like other

> Apple has argued they do not sell a piece of hardware, but a platform. It includes hardware, software, and a marketplace (like a video game console like others have said). Can this even be quantifiably measured? Usually when selling something you describe, itemize and bill for it. The Apple developer agreement offers the developer tools and access to Apple's App Store and related services. The dev's argument is that Apple is forcing them to enter into that contract to distribute apps to iOS users even when they explicitly wish to opt out of using Apple's developer tools and services.

matwood 3y ago
> Can this even be quantifiably measured? Apple thinks it's worth 15%-30%. While app developers may complain, most still stay on the platform. Or are you talking about how much the market is worth? A new analysis has shown that iPhone users spend seven times more on apps than Android users, far higher than the 4x rule of thumb suggested by purely anecdotal data. https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/06/iphone-users-spend-apps/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/06/iphone-users-spend-apps/
- EMIRELADERO 3y ago
  I'm talking about the goods or services that are sold.
  - matwood 3y ago
    One of the goods that Apple sells to developers is the market of users. Attention of high value users is one of the most valuable items for sale today.
    - EMIRELADERO 3y ago
      Legally speaking, there is no such thing. iOS is not a service, it is a good.
shuckles 3y ago
It is not possible to run software on iOS, an Apple software product, without running Apple’s developer tools. Are you thinking Spotify wants to opt out and build its own software stack for iPhone from kernel and baseband up?
- EMIRELADERO 3y ago
  It's fully possible, much like it's possible to compile Windows programs/libraries on Linux today.
  - shuckles 3y ago
    It’s possible to run Spotify on Android but that has nothing to do with running it on iPhone.
    - EMIRELADERO 3y ago
      I think you missed the argument. Since it's technically possible to compile an iOS app that uses iOS APIs without using Apple's developer tools, Apple would not have a claim that the developers "used their IP" in that situation. Calling APIs is not an exclusive IP right.

matwood 3y ago

> Can this even be quantifiably measured? Apple thinks it's worth 15%-30%. While app developers may complain, most still stay on the platform. Or are you talking about how much the market is worth? A new analysis has shown that iPhone users spend seven times more on apps than Android users, far higher than the 4x rule of thumb suggested by purely anecdotal data. https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/06/iphone-users-spend-apps/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/06/iphone-users-spend-apps/

EMIRELADERO 3y ago
I'm talking about the goods or services that are sold.
- matwood 3y ago
  One of the goods that Apple sells to developers is the market of users. Attention of high value users is one of the most valuable items for sale today.
  - EMIRELADERO 3y ago
    Legally speaking, there is no such thing. iOS is not a service, it is a good.

shuckles 3y ago

It is not possible to run software on iOS, an Apple software product, without running Apple’s developer tools. Are you thinking Spotify wants to opt out and build its own software stack for iPhone from kernel and baseband up?

EMIRELADERO 3y ago
It's fully possible, much like it's possible to compile Windows programs/libraries on Linux today.
- shuckles 3y ago
  It’s possible to run Spotify on Android but that has nothing to do with running it on iPhone.
  - EMIRELADERO 3y ago
    I think you missed the argument. Since it's technically possible to compile an iOS app that uses iOS APIs without using Apple's developer tools, Apple would not have a claim that the developers "used their IP" in that situation. Calling APIs is not an exclusive IP right.