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Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon G12 laptop review: First major refresh in three years
- jbeard4 3y agoW520 running Ubuntu is still my daily driver after 12 years. The build quality of their older models is just insane. I wish Lenovo would bring back their classic hardware.
- wiseowise 3y agoThey’ve switched ctrl and fn? Welp, if the last bastion of sanity on Windows did this, then I guess there’s truly no way back from Mac. And no, remapping it in BIOS doesn’t cut it.
- soperj 3y agoI'd remap it, just dumb though. Why have a key that you almost never use be within reach and make it so ctrl isn't.
- wiseowise 3y agoExactly. The only sane layout and they’ve switched because eVeRyBoDy DoEs. I can’t believe they’ve budged.
- PennRobotics 3y agoI'm a Vim user so I'm constantly pressing Ctrl, but I press it with the edge of my palm. Something like Ctrl+R, -T, -Y, etc. one-handed is extremely uncomfortable using a pinky (either rotate your hand to use the thumb or stretch your whole hand) or crossed-under thumb. When palming Ctrl? Any of those combos is just another keypress to me---more natural than capitalizing a letter. If the corner key were Fn, I could no longer just palm Ctrl, and that does not sit well with me
- thesh4d0w 3y agoHell yes, I'm onboard with this. I've always swapped it the bios to be this way.
- begueradj 3y agoBetter than Thinkpad T14, Generation 5 ? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39507171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39507171
- neverrroot 3y agoDepends on what you want. For me the X1 is better because it's lighter, and that's what I care mostly about. But I also have a X1 Nano and an Air m2. The Nano is the smallest and lightest, but its keyboard is too small for my hands. The Air is to heavy and the keyboard is a far cry compared to both X1C and X1N. The X1C is a sweet spot that got better with G12: lighter and likely not so hot and quieter. Still, the X1C could get even better with AMD CPUs, but that's likely only wishful thinking.
- juujian 3y agoOn that note, the P14s is basically a T14 with slightly beefier options. I wish there was an X1 with AMD, but that is never going to happen.
- bubblethink 3y agoYes, better due to LPDDR. It's unlikely that T14 will be meaningfully better on perf, cooling, or battery, although all of those should be possible with a larger form factor.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rcarmo 3y agoThe X1s have been very much hit and miss over the years. I used several iterations and flavours, and can summarise things like so (apologies for not knowing the right numbers for some anymore, I had to return them): - 2014 X1 Carbon: Amazing screen, so-so keyboard, great battery life. Heavy. Don't remember the fan noise. - 2015 X1 Carbon: Horrible dim screen (yes, I know you can BTO an upgrade, but we got the defaults), good keyboard, too heavy, horrid battery life that was especially painful as I spent 2015/16 mostly on the road. Fan noise was a frequent nuisance when I was in my home office. - 2022 X1 Yoga Gen 6 (https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/12/03/1600 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/12/03/1600): Amazing display, good keyboard, nice weight, battery life seems OK for Windows but pretty short compared to my MacBook (as usual these days). Had to gimp it to have a quieter fan, and I've had days when my IdeaPad Flex 5 (which runs Fedora) lasts longer, which is just... odd. As to the Carbon carrying an Intel Ultra... I really like Lenovo, but I bought an IdeaPad Flex 5 with my own money because it used an AMD CPU. Still haven't regretted the multi-core performance, or the iGPU (which was pretty great for that time).
- TowerTall 3y agoI have the 2022 X1 Yoga Gen 6 as well. I am not impressed by battery life. Watching a 4K movie can easily drain the battery form full charge. The major issue is over heating. Unless I place some small item underneath it (think a lighter size) to make a 1 inch gab between the surface and the laptop it overheats to the point where it stops functions (e.g. movies starts to freeze up). With a bit a airflow underneath it this problem goes away. The casing can get really hot. Almost to the point where you burn yourself. Almost.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago>Watching a 4K movie can easily drain the battery form full charge. Something is terribly wrong with your 2022 laptop if a ~2h 4K movie can drain the whole battery. You should get the battery RMAd ASAP if it's still in warranty or check whatever energy vampires you might have running or maybe a bad driver setup. I have a cheap-ass Lenovo Yoga and watching a 4k movie drops the battery only by about 10% per hour, so something is definitely wrong with yours.
- AlgoRitmo 3y agoAlways wait a few years after they drop..and get them from a reputable seller from ebay…anywhere from the $350 range and up I’ve had good experiences with I like using Macs for personal use…Thinkpads for productivity
- varispeed 3y agoI wouldn't spend more than £100 on throwaway laptop. X280 is quite decent, cheap and perfect if you need a resource quickly and you don't want to use your Mac. I see no point in these new laptops. Not sure what they are trying to solve.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago> New dedicated fingerprint reader next to the small arrow keys Someone at Lenovo has an irresistible pull to fuck up with a keyboard layout. Because you know, this chassis is so small there is absolutely no other place where to place that fingerprint reader. At all. At least now people like me wouldn't lose the clipboard content until they remap the dreaded PrtScr under the right thumb.
- rsynnott 3y ago> Note that the screen is set to 60 Hz by default and so users must manually enable 120 Hz mode through the Advanced display settings. Huh? This seems a bit odd.
- MSFT_Edging 3y agoI assume it saves battery. You don't really need a super high refresh rate if you're doing things like staring at static text.
- vwoolf 3y agoYou might not need it but you'll want it.
- The_Colonel 3y agoPersonally I can't see a difference between 60Hz and 120Hz in phones, so I usually disable the high refresh rate.
- rsynnott 3y agoI mean, you never _need_ a super-high refresh rate. But after having a 120hz screen on my work MBP for a couple of years, I definitely _want_ it; it's the main reason I've held off on getting a personal MBA, in the hope that it trickles down.
- jwells89 3y agoMacbook Pros have full range VRR (1-120hz) though, which not only reduces power usage compared to 120hz at all times but can bring it below that of 60hz at all times, depending on what you’re doing — for example if you’re just reading or typing or watching 24FPS TV/movies, the total number of frames drawn on a ProMotion capable MacBook is way lower than on its 60hz-locked counterparts doing the same thing. This costs extra to implement though so you don’t see it too often in Windows laptops except sometimes in gaming laptops.
- karmakaze 3y agoI had a double-take thinking 1080p for $2700 but it's actually 1800p.
- oldpersonintx 3y ago[dead]
- MSFT_Edging 3y agoThat webcam bump is horrendous, probably the worst possible feature to take from smartphone design. I always loved how my 2016 is so sleek, sure the lid has stress fractures near the hinge after 8 years, but it hasn't actually broken yet.
- MBCook 3y agoWhy does the screen need to go 180°+? It’s kinda neat it can do that, I just can’t think of a good reason to bother. Can any of you? I mean would anyone complain if it “only” went to 150°? Overall, it’s nice looking. I just found that one detail odd.
- dingnuts 3y agoas I get older I do this less but there was a period where I enjoyed computing laying back in bed with the laptop fully open (180 degrees) or nearly 180 degrees, propped up on my legs and it always annoyed me if a laptop wouldn't open enough to do this
- jamesbvaughan 3y agoI do something similar. I primarily use a MacBook these days and I really miss how my ThinkPad could open up to 180 degrees while using it laying down on the couch.
- inhumantsar 3y agothis is a very old feature carried over from IBM-era thinkpads. the main benefit for me was always accident resilience. something could thwack a bezel and it would just lay flat rather than stressing the hinges. it's also very handy in at-desk and road-warrior scenarios. since it can basically stand on its thin edge, you can position an adjustable laptop stand to hold the laptop nearly vertical. puts the screen in a much more neck friendly position and frees up more of the desk/table for a full-size keyboard and mouse.
- SilverBirch 3y agoI'll put the counter to you - if you could have a hinge that goes 180 degrees why wouldn't you? There's no advantage to limiting it. With cheap laptops there's always the kind of implied "this hinge is cheap and crap so in 3 years time it's just going to sit at the maximum open point", but the Thinkpads are way more resilient than that.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
- taylorhou 3y agoi've standardized my whole company on X1 carbons and X1 nanos. plenty of refurb options and recently lenovo even sold x1 carbon g11 32gb ram for $800! (snagged as many as I could). and lenovo/thinkpad's warranty options are fantastic. we've sent 10+ with re-activated warranties and never had an issue getting them repaired. for context - we have 200+ staff with over 100 laptops deployed.
- bsder 3y ago> recently lenovo even sold x1 carbon g11 32gb ram for $800! Man, how'd you spot that one? I'd have been all over that.
- s1gnp0st 3y agoI've been repeatedly disappointed in the build quality of the X1 series. My last one had cheap USB C sockets which wore out to the extent that it made charging impossible. The one prior to that had severe coil whine. I'm back on Macs despite preferring Linux to macOS.
- richx 3y agoI am using X1s since 10 years, different generations. The only one I really disliked was the one with the F1-F12 function keys were no real buttons, more like a touchbar. That was pretty bad as a software developer! I think they introduced it because Apple MacBooks had it as well, thankfully for one generation only.
- cheeseomlit 3y agoModern chiclet keyboards are such an abomination. Does anybody even make laptops with good keyboards anymore or is that a thing of the past now?
- danpalmer 3y agoIs there any hard evidence on this either way? Personally I love them, other than the fact they’re not split for ergonomics.
- dsr_ 3y agoIt utterly doesn't matter whether there's evidence: it's a matter of personal preference, and the request was for information, not justification.
- danpalmer 3y agoWell it does matter, because I would say that chiclet keyboards are good, but clearly that doesn't answer the question because we have different definitions of "good", hence digging deeper on what is actually good.
- dsr_ 3y ago"what is actually good" for me. for you. This is the difference between subjective and objective parameters. If you want to say that a particular keyboard masses 1.2Kg and has keys with an activation point of 2.1mm at a force of 45 centinewtons, those are objective statements which can be measured, confirmed, and corrected. You can even measure the hand geometry of a million people to come up with a figure about key center distances that will be usable for 70 or 80 or maybe 90% of them. But "chiclets are good" is a subjective statement, a statement of your personal opinion and comfort. It's not measurable, and it cannot be applied to other people. Arguing about subjective statements never convinces anyone. This originated with a person making a subjective statement: "Modern chiclet keyboards are an abomination". There's nothing to argue about there, unless you want to send them a keyboard to try out that you think will somehow convince them over their experience. The sensible courses are to offer options for non-chiclet keyboards, to commiserate, or to remain quiet in the knowledge that you are well-served by chiclet keyboards.
- varispeed 3y agoOnce you go Mac M1-M3, then there is no going back. Why do companies bother releasing Intel laptops? It's legacy tech with some window dressing to make it look modern on paper. But it's all the same hot, poor performance rubbish. Lenovo should invest in creating their own ARM silicon and switch to Linux.
- Justin_K 3y agoI couldn’t have had a worse experience with my x1. Thermal throttling over 50 percent of the time. Warranty service came 2x and was not able to resolve. Customer support said the machine was fine. I finally gave up and tossed the machine in a shredder.
- PennRobotics 3y agoIf anyone at Lenovo reads this thread, test and fix your EC firmware---both earlier and to a higher standard. The support forums constantly reveal EC-realm issues: suspend broken, lid switch screwy behavior, odd interrupts causing battery drain, holding power 10 seconds does not work during some hangs, keyboard stops working (even in the BIOS tests in some cases), long startup, keyboard beep setting is ignored, changing settings via /proc/whatever does not always persist, and the list goes on. Every BIOS update has half a dozen EC-related "fixes", so it's clear that problem discovery and reporting is left to the customer. So many Linux desktops run 6.6, 6.7, 6.8 totally fine, which to me suggests a problem involving addition of a battery, low-power states, and the controller tying all that together. I will never buy another modern ThinkPad. It has cost too much of my productivity figuring out problems that should crop up in internal testing and never, ever reach the customer. I was able to find (and document) ten showstopper bugs in the first week of owning the damn thing!