6 ms·

On the flip side, if you are too good of a listener, people stop listening to you because they enjoy being listened to. You become the calm person that attract

by novok 3y ago

On the flip side, if you are too good of a listener, people stop listening to you because they enjoy being listened to. You become the calm person that attracts all the anxious into their lives. Sometimes, you have to stop holding space for others for them to finally understand that, no it's not ok what they are doing anymore. To help others listen to you, you realize you have to learn to scream, because as the author implies, the world is not good at listening. "And then, wow, I met the rest of the world."

nicbou 3y ago
I got better at listening, and more curious in general. I've met a lot of strangers recently as I am travelling. I sometimes sit with people for hours, learn everything about their lives, and never get to say what I do for a living. Never a single "and you?" I notice it happening at home too. Sometimes you'll talk with a friend for 30+ minutes, then think "I'm fine too, thanks for asking". I was lucky to meet good listeners early on and learn from them. I wish more people's first partner told them "you should return the question sometimes".
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  I've been on several dates like this. The other person talks about themselves for 30 ~ 90 minutes, exclusively, depending on how charitable I'm feeling that day. They don't ask me any questions about me at all. Like, not even one. I ask myself if it's because they're like that on any date with any person, or because they realized at first sight they weren't interested in me, so it doesn't matter to them if they learn anything at all about me during the date, since they don't expect to see me again either way. Sometimes I've tested this by doing a second date. They show up and talk about themselves non-stop. But then I ask myself the same question as before. Is it possible many otherwise neurotypical people can get into their 30s and 40s without ever having learned how to carry on a two-way conversation?
  - kelseyfrog 3y ago
    There is a friend in my life who I meet with regularly in a small group setting that falls into this category - never seeming to reciprocate. When I imagine asking him, "What don't you ask questions about my life?" I assume I'd get a response something like, "You can tell me anything," or "I'm open to hearing what you want to talk about," or "You're free to talk about anything." If I had to devise a quick mental model, it might seem like the difference between talking at someone vs talking with someone? I might have to think about that a bit more. Do you have any insight here?
    - pepve 3y ago
      > When I imagine asking him, "What don't you ask questions about my life?" I assume I'd get a response something like, "You can tell me anything," or "I'm open to hearing what you want to talk about," or "You're free to talk about anything." I think this is the insight! > If I had to devise a quick mental model, it might seem like the difference between talking at someone vs talking with someone? (And I think this is semantics.)
      - kelseyfrog 3y ago
        Excuse me if I read that wrong, but I'd be curious why you think label "talking at" vs "talking with" is semantics. I see a significant difference between the distribution of behaviors and utterances when I'm "talking at" vs "talking with". There's also a significant difference in response I seem to receive from people when I employ one distribution of behaviors vs the other. But, maybe you see it differently?
        unsupp0rted 3y ago
        I agree. “Talking at” might as well involve a cardboard cutout of my face and a tape recorder that plays back “hmm” and “wow” utterances at random intervals. My being there in person doesn’t materially affect what the other person experiences from me anyway.
        pepve 3y ago
        I was trying to compliment you! When you talk about your friend, about what you might ask him, and what he might answer, I think you have insight there. I think that's valuable. And I should have stopped there. But I went on to try to make a point about the quick mental model you proposed about "talking at" vs "talking with". Which I think leads to arguing about semantics (with others or yourself). What you're saying about the difference between the distribution of behaviors and utterances sounds reasonable to me (if a bit abstract). I just think the specific insight into your friend's behavior is a lot more valuable.
  - cutemonster 3y ago
    Consider this: What if your date finds you attractive already? Could be because of real or perceived popularity or high "status" in you? (I'm guessing you're a man?) And maybe you're ok handsome? Then, what does it matter what you do during the days? If you're high status enough already -- what do the reasons for that matter? And so she'd rather talk about herself and her interests. When you mentioned you tried a second date, I thought, I bet she'll show up. (I suppose there are men who date cute women and they (the men) talk only about themselves and cars and soccer. What does it matter what she does during the days? When she's good looking already)
- watwut 3y ago
  I kind of expect strangers to start talking about themselves if they are comfortable talking and not to talk when they dont feel like talking. I dont ask anything that can be considered private and let them pick what they want to talk about.
RugnirViking 3y ago
I feel like i've been in this space for a few years. I have some close friends, who I really like. But I realized that its almost all them opening themselves up to me. When I am struggling myself I find it really hard to open up and talk about what I want to talk about. I think some of it is something I can improve on myself though
- bratwurst3000 3y ago
  This is also something I had to learn, not only to be a good listener, but also to be a good talker. It’s really hard to open up and talk easily about oneself.
danparsonson 3y ago
This is about setting boundaries - being a good listener only when you are comfortable doing so.
- kelseyfrog 3y ago
  Great point! I have a tendency toward co-dependency so understanding that being needed is different than internal validation is important. Being choosy about when and with whom one is listening is crucial. Burnout is real and always listening is a fast track to it. Anyone, including the listener, can tap the breaks and slow or stop things if they need to for any reason at all.
  - danparsonson 3y ago
    Wise words. In any kind of caring situation, the person giving care can most effectively do so when they themselves are in a good place, so it actually benefits everyone for you to leave some space for yourself.
leokennis 3y ago
I have also found that instead of screaming, staying silent is a very powerful technique. If someone is spewing nonsense or making personal attacks, I sometimes just "hm mm" to confirm I heard them, and then stay silent. Nine out of ten times they will backtrack immediately.
- danparsonson 3y ago
  Indeed it's hard for someone to continue being unkind to someone else who is being friendly or at least polite back to them!

by novok 3y ago

nicbou 3y ago

I got better at listening, and more curious in general. I've met a lot of strangers recently as I am travelling. I sometimes sit with people for hours, learn everything about their lives, and never get to say what I do for a living. Never a single "and you?" I notice it happening at home too. Sometimes you'll talk with a friend for 30+ minutes, then think "I'm fine too, thanks for asking". I was lucky to meet good listeners early on and learn from them. I wish more people's first partner told them "you should return the question sometimes".

unsupp0rted 3y ago
I've been on several dates like this. The other person talks about themselves for 30 ~ 90 minutes, exclusively, depending on how charitable I'm feeling that day. They don't ask me any questions about me at all. Like, not even one. I ask myself if it's because they're like that on any date with any person, or because they realized at first sight they weren't interested in me, so it doesn't matter to them if they learn anything at all about me during the date, since they don't expect to see me again either way. Sometimes I've tested this by doing a second date. They show up and talk about themselves non-stop. But then I ask myself the same question as before. Is it possible many otherwise neurotypical people can get into their 30s and 40s without ever having learned how to carry on a two-way conversation?
- kelseyfrog 3y ago
  There is a friend in my life who I meet with regularly in a small group setting that falls into this category - never seeming to reciprocate. When I imagine asking him, "What don't you ask questions about my life?" I assume I'd get a response something like, "You can tell me anything," or "I'm open to hearing what you want to talk about," or "You're free to talk about anything." If I had to devise a quick mental model, it might seem like the difference between talking at someone vs talking with someone? I might have to think about that a bit more. Do you have any insight here?
  - pepve 3y ago
    > When I imagine asking him, "What don't you ask questions about my life?" I assume I'd get a response something like, "You can tell me anything," or "I'm open to hearing what you want to talk about," or "You're free to talk about anything." I think this is the insight! > If I had to devise a quick mental model, it might seem like the difference between talking at someone vs talking with someone? (And I think this is semantics.)
    - kelseyfrog 3y ago
      Excuse me if I read that wrong, but I'd be curious why you think label "talking at" vs "talking with" is semantics. I see a significant difference between the distribution of behaviors and utterances when I'm "talking at" vs "talking with". There's also a significant difference in response I seem to receive from people when I employ one distribution of behaviors vs the other. But, maybe you see it differently?
      - unsupp0rted 3y ago
        I agree. “Talking at” might as well involve a cardboard cutout of my face and a tape recorder that plays back “hmm” and “wow” utterances at random intervals. My being there in person doesn’t materially affect what the other person experiences from me anyway.
      - pepve 3y ago
        I was trying to compliment you! When you talk about your friend, about what you might ask him, and what he might answer, I think you have insight there. I think that's valuable. And I should have stopped there. But I went on to try to make a point about the quick mental model you proposed about "talking at" vs "talking with". Which I think leads to arguing about semantics (with others or yourself). What you're saying about the difference between the distribution of behaviors and utterances sounds reasonable to me (if a bit abstract). I just think the specific insight into your friend's behavior is a lot more valuable.
- cutemonster 3y ago
  Consider this: What if your date finds you attractive already? Could be because of real or perceived popularity or high "status" in you? (I'm guessing you're a man?) And maybe you're ok handsome? Then, what does it matter what you do during the days? If you're high status enough already -- what do the reasons for that matter? And so she'd rather talk about herself and her interests. When you mentioned you tried a second date, I thought, I bet she'll show up. (I suppose there are men who date cute women and they (the men) talk only about themselves and cars and soccer. What does it matter what she does during the days? When she's good looking already)
watwut 3y ago
I kind of expect strangers to start talking about themselves if they are comfortable talking and not to talk when they dont feel like talking. I dont ask anything that can be considered private and let them pick what they want to talk about.

RugnirViking 3y ago

I feel like i've been in this space for a few years. I have some close friends, who I really like. But I realized that its almost all them opening themselves up to me. When I am struggling myself I find it really hard to open up and talk about what I want to talk about. I think some of it is something I can improve on myself though

bratwurst3000 3y ago
This is also something I had to learn, not only to be a good listener, but also to be a good talker. It’s really hard to open up and talk easily about oneself.

danparsonson 3y ago

This is about setting boundaries - being a good listener only when you are comfortable doing so.

kelseyfrog 3y ago
Great point! I have a tendency toward co-dependency so understanding that being needed is different than internal validation is important. Being choosy about when and with whom one is listening is crucial. Burnout is real and always listening is a fast track to it. Anyone, including the listener, can tap the breaks and slow or stop things if they need to for any reason at all.
- danparsonson 3y ago
  Wise words. In any kind of caring situation, the person giving care can most effectively do so when they themselves are in a good place, so it actually benefits everyone for you to leave some space for yourself.

leokennis 3y ago

I have also found that instead of screaming, staying silent is a very powerful technique. If someone is spewing nonsense or making personal attacks, I sometimes just "hm mm" to confirm I heard them, and then stay silent. Nine out of ten times they will backtrack immediately.

danparsonson 3y ago
Indeed it's hard for someone to continue being unkind to someone else who is being friendly or at least polite back to them!