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PGE charges me 50c/kwh just to deliver my power. I still spend an additional 12c/kwh for it to be generated. My bill last two months were $200 each for a 1 bed

PGE charges me 50c/kwh just to deliver my power. I still spend an additional 12c/kwh for it to be generated. My bill last two months were $200 each for a 1 bed in SF. Insane.

asdff 3y ago
If you want cheap power you need a public provider. LADWP charges 16-21c/kwh depending on your usage.
meaydinli 3y ago
For the last few months, we have done our best to reduce both our electric and gas usages. Unfortunately, regardless of however much we reduce, each bill came higher than the one before.
- obmelvin 3y ago
  This has roughly been my experience in San Diego with SDG&E as well. We are renting with mostly older appliances, including an electric water heater that with an energy rating sticker suggesting a cost of nearly $100 month - the numbers look much better on it because they use 12c kWh lol. We do nearly all vacuuming, washer, dryer and dishwasher on the weekends when it's cheapest. We don't use an AC or heater. But, we do cook nearly every night on an ancient electric stove and I do work from home with 1 or 2 32" monitors. It seems impossible to pay much less than $150 month.
ethbr1 3y ago
That's insane. Are they sweeping all the state/city mandates into the delivery charge? Example from the SE: base charge of $35 (static, I believe) + 10.6c/kwh.
- eszed 3y ago
  > Are they sweeping all the state/city mandates into the delivery charge? Nope, not on my bill.
monero-xmr 3y ago
But you are saving the climate
fragmede 3y ago
At this rate, the cost of electricity in SF is going to rival the cost of gasoline for an EV. That's already the case in some places in Europe. In SF, gasoline is roughly at $5/gallon. If your ICE car gets 31 mpg but your electricity works out to be $0.70/kWh on an EV that gets 4.2 mi/kWh (eg Tesla Model 3), you're ever so slightly better off choosing an ICE vehicle vs an EV in a strictly financial sense in that case, according to chooseev's calculator*. * https://chooseev.com/savings-calculator/ https://chooseev.com/savings-calculator/
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Where in Europe is gasoline only $5/gallon, or do you mean their local rate for gasoline? I was surprised recently when BC’s gas prices were about the same as WA’s, it’s almost always been more expensive in my lifetime.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    edited my comment to say that SF gas prices are $5. It was two separate thoughts. The broader point is that gasoline vs electricity is energy either way, and the cost of different kinds of energy aren't always going to favor electricity in San Francisco in the near future, it seems.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      One thing to consider is energy independence. It’s maybe more relevant in Asia and Europe, but not having your cars depend on imports is a huge win if you can manage it. For CA, the whole PG&E thing is a mess, I’m in the PNW and my EV is insignificant to fill while our gas prices best CA.
- xster 3y ago
  I have a Rivian. It's equivalent to 16.7 mpg given its mi/kWh, and electricity and gasoline costs.
- jkelleyrtp 3y ago
  The cost of gas has come down in the city - around $4.30/gal for where I fill up. So yes, it’s actually cheaper to drive an ICE than an EV in SF.
vineyardmike 3y ago
I moved somewhat recently from Seattle to SF. The electricity in Seattle was 7c/kwh when I was there. I did the math, it would have been cost-effective to heat my home with bitcoin mining, because electricity was so cheap (but GPUs - not so much). My partner likes to use a space heater to warm the bathroom during the morning. It costs almost $1/hr to do that in SF with a 1500w space heater. We also spend $200 a month on electricity now, and we don't have an EV, and we have a gas stove and clothing dryer. I miss my $5 electricity bill from when I was single in Seattle.

PGE charges me 50c/kwh just to deliver my power. I still spend an additional 12c/kwh for it to be generated. My bill last two months were $200 each for a 1 bed in SF. Insane.

asdff 3y ago

If you want cheap power you need a public provider. LADWP charges 16-21c/kwh depending on your usage.

meaydinli 3y ago

For the last few months, we have done our best to reduce both our electric and gas usages. Unfortunately, regardless of however much we reduce, each bill came higher than the one before.

obmelvin 3y ago
This has roughly been my experience in San Diego with SDG&E as well. We are renting with mostly older appliances, including an electric water heater that with an energy rating sticker suggesting a cost of nearly $100 month - the numbers look much better on it because they use 12c kWh lol. We do nearly all vacuuming, washer, dryer and dishwasher on the weekends when it's cheapest. We don't use an AC or heater. But, we do cook nearly every night on an ancient electric stove and I do work from home with 1 or 2 32" monitors. It seems impossible to pay much less than $150 month.

ethbr1 3y ago

That's insane. Are they sweeping all the state/city mandates into the delivery charge? Example from the SE: base charge of $35 (static, I believe) + 10.6c/kwh.

eszed 3y ago
> Are they sweeping all the state/city mandates into the delivery charge? Nope, not on my bill.

monero-xmr 3y ago

But you are saving the climate

fragmede 3y ago

At this rate, the cost of electricity in SF is going to rival the cost of gasoline for an EV. That's already the case in some places in Europe. In SF, gasoline is roughly at $5/gallon. If your ICE car gets 31 mpg but your electricity works out to be $0.70/kWh on an EV that gets 4.2 mi/kWh (eg Tesla Model 3), you're ever so slightly better off choosing an ICE vehicle vs an EV in a strictly financial sense in that case, according to chooseev's calculator*. * https://chooseev.com/savings-calculator/ https://chooseev.com/savings-calculator/

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Where in Europe is gasoline only $5/gallon, or do you mean their local rate for gasoline? I was surprised recently when BC’s gas prices were about the same as WA’s, it’s almost always been more expensive in my lifetime.
- fragmede 3y ago
  edited my comment to say that SF gas prices are $5. It was two separate thoughts. The broader point is that gasoline vs electricity is energy either way, and the cost of different kinds of energy aren't always going to favor electricity in San Francisco in the near future, it seems.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    One thing to consider is energy independence. It’s maybe more relevant in Asia and Europe, but not having your cars depend on imports is a huge win if you can manage it. For CA, the whole PG&E thing is a mess, I’m in the PNW and my EV is insignificant to fill while our gas prices best CA.
xster 3y ago
I have a Rivian. It's equivalent to 16.7 mpg given its mi/kWh, and electricity and gasoline costs.
jkelleyrtp 3y ago
The cost of gas has come down in the city - around $4.30/gal for where I fill up. So yes, it’s actually cheaper to drive an ICE than an EV in SF.

vineyardmike 3y ago

I moved somewhat recently from Seattle to SF. The electricity in Seattle was 7c/kwh when I was there. I did the math, it would have been cost-effective to heat my home with bitcoin mining, because electricity was so cheap (but GPUs - not so much). My partner likes to use a space heater to warm the bathroom during the morning. It costs almost $1/hr to do that in SF with a 1500w space heater. We also spend $200 a month on electricity now, and we don't have an EV, and we have a gas stove and clothing dryer. I miss my $5 electricity bill from when I was single in Seattle.