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We need to reverse the trend of most people having a phone that's wired in with Google or Apple. I don't, and I can't tell you how often I try to do something o

We need to reverse the trend of most people having a phone that's wired in with Google or Apple. I don't, and I can't tell you how often I try to do something only to be told, "Okay, now download our app and..." It happened just last week when I was buying a car. The sales rep kept insisting that I install the car company's app while I was trying to just write a check, grab the keys, and drive off the lot. "You can use your Google or Facebook identity to make signup quicker!" Not only can I not actually install the app, I don't even have a Google or Facebook account. Eventually he relented and showed me "his wife's" car -- which happens to be the most expensive car on the lot -- on his own phone so I could see how the app worked. (His wife's car had an odometer reading of 6 miles per what I saw in the app running on his phone, but I'm sure she just hasn't had a chance to drive it yet anywhere except home from the dealership yet.) For situations like that I usually have to tell them, "I don't have a phone with me that can do that." Then they get really confused, convinced that I have no idea what I'm talking about that that all I have to do is open the App Store and search for the app. The problem is my "App Store" is F-Droid. Why on earth I wouldn't be cool with just handing over my privacy to Google or Apple is completely lost to them, and most of the time I have neither the time nor desire to try to explain it to them. So I just end up coming across as some weirdo asshole by refusing to "just install the app." We need more people using phones that respect their privacy and that don't have an umbilical cord to Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, etc.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
vitalurk 3y ago
It's bewildering to me that you're the weird, odd one for doing this.
- hyperthesis 3y ago
  It's in the sales rep's interest.
Syonyk 3y ago
This is a big part of the reason I carry a flip phone. Instead of explaining that your "otherwise smartphone looking thing" can't run Apple or Android apps, I just have to whip out the flip phone, flip it open, flip it closed, and say "Sorry, my phone doesn't have apps." ... even though it's running Android 11 Go and I can sideload stuff, it doesn't matter because the number of apps that work on a 320x240 screen with keyboard input only are "roughly zero." Even if there's no good reason it shouldn't work, nobody tests or designs for that case, so there I am.
- steelframe 3y ago
  Yup, that works too. Not a bad idea! By the way, the dimmers are working great. And I finally found BR30s that don't sing. It's amazing to me how many of them do. Have you tried Syncthing yet?
  - Syonyk 3y ago
    Glad to hear it! The singing bulbs are a new, and quite unwelcome, development. It seems to relate to the number of filament supports. I've not messed with Syncthing - I've been more trying to drive my life offline and spend less time messing with computers. I had a very "Work on computers to maintain the computers I find less-objectionable to use the internet a little" sort of circle going, and I decided to break out of it. So I'm x86/Qubes for now, and it's honestly a lot less work than the ARM stuff I was doing before.
electroly 3y ago
I think car salesmen are particularly pushy about it because car manufacturers are starting to sell monthly subscriptions for things in the app. They can't sell it to you if you won't install the app. For instance, my Toyota came with some kind of trial subscription for a remote unlock/lock and GPS location service. Served, of course, through the Toyota app. They have an incentive to get you to install the app that goes beyond just not thinking it's a big deal. Email I got today: > Your access to Safety Connect and Remote Connect services will expire unless you access your Toyota app or call 1-833-914-0992 to extend your subscription. For as low as $8.00 per month, you can enjoy the convenience of Safety Connect or Remote Connect. For further savings, you can choose an annual plan. I won't be doing that, but it makes the reason for the push to install their app starkly clear.
- steelframe 3y ago
  The car I bought last week is a Toyota. Upon getting home I immediately followed the instructions on the sticker near the center console to hit the "SOS" button and request deactivation of their telematics services. The rep on the phone mentioned something about how she needed to create an account for me or something before she was able to process the opt-out and then, I guess, did so. Of course I have no idea what this opt-out does. The skeptical part of me suspects that the system still collects and transmits my location and such, but then they simply don't trivially attach that telemetry to my account. I'm also going to try pulling the DCM fuse that's supposed to cut the cut the gateway/telematics antenna. I also plan to wrap the transmitter in a Faraday cage.
- MBCook 3y ago
  I would not be at all surprised if the salesman got a little bonus for every app that was confirmed installed on a sale.
Muromec 3y ago
Well, I’m just using a flip phone and keep the iPhone in a cupboard at home without a sim, so I can use that one app once in a blue moon instead of dancing around the problem for half a day. Works like a charm.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

vitalurk 3y ago

It's bewildering to me that you're the weird, odd one for doing this.

hyperthesis 3y ago
It's in the sales rep's interest.

Syonyk 3y ago

This is a big part of the reason I carry a flip phone. Instead of explaining that your "otherwise smartphone looking thing" can't run Apple or Android apps, I just have to whip out the flip phone, flip it open, flip it closed, and say "Sorry, my phone doesn't have apps." ... even though it's running Android 11 Go and I can sideload stuff, it doesn't matter because the number of apps that work on a 320x240 screen with keyboard input only are "roughly zero." Even if there's no good reason it shouldn't work, nobody tests or designs for that case, so there I am.

steelframe 3y ago
Yup, that works too. Not a bad idea! By the way, the dimmers are working great. And I finally found BR30s that don't sing. It's amazing to me how many of them do. Have you tried Syncthing yet?
- Syonyk 3y ago
  Glad to hear it! The singing bulbs are a new, and quite unwelcome, development. It seems to relate to the number of filament supports. I've not messed with Syncthing - I've been more trying to drive my life offline and spend less time messing with computers. I had a very "Work on computers to maintain the computers I find less-objectionable to use the internet a little" sort of circle going, and I decided to break out of it. So I'm x86/Qubes for now, and it's honestly a lot less work than the ARM stuff I was doing before.

electroly 3y ago

I think car salesmen are particularly pushy about it because car manufacturers are starting to sell monthly subscriptions for things in the app. They can't sell it to you if you won't install the app. For instance, my Toyota came with some kind of trial subscription for a remote unlock/lock and GPS location service. Served, of course, through the Toyota app. They have an incentive to get you to install the app that goes beyond just not thinking it's a big deal. Email I got today: > Your access to Safety Connect and Remote Connect services will expire unless you access your Toyota app or call 1-833-914-0992 to extend your subscription. For as low as $8.00 per month, you can enjoy the convenience of Safety Connect or Remote Connect. For further savings, you can choose an annual plan. I won't be doing that, but it makes the reason for the push to install their app starkly clear.

steelframe 3y ago
The car I bought last week is a Toyota. Upon getting home I immediately followed the instructions on the sticker near the center console to hit the "SOS" button and request deactivation of their telematics services. The rep on the phone mentioned something about how she needed to create an account for me or something before she was able to process the opt-out and then, I guess, did so. Of course I have no idea what this opt-out does. The skeptical part of me suspects that the system still collects and transmits my location and such, but then they simply don't trivially attach that telemetry to my account. I'm also going to try pulling the DCM fuse that's supposed to cut the cut the gateway/telematics antenna. I also plan to wrap the transmitter in a Faraday cage.
MBCook 3y ago
I would not be at all surprised if the salesman got a little bonus for every app that was confirmed installed on a sale.

Muromec 3y ago

Well, I’m just using a flip phone and keep the iPhone in a cupboard at home without a sim, so I can use that one app once in a blue moon instead of dancing around the problem for half a day. Works like a charm.