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Why is medical care a fundamental right?
by cglace 14y ago
Why is medical care a fundamental right?
- mindcrime 14y agoIt can't be, because if it's a fundamental right (read: entitlement) then someone else is obligated to provide that care. So, in a hypothetical world where no one chooses to go into the medical profession, we'd have to put guns to people's heads and force them to become doctors, because, after all, medical care is a "fundamental right." There's an obvious paradox in that. Medical care is a "right" in the sense that it's something you shouldn't have to ask for permission to seek, but we aren't entitled to it. It's a service that can be provided and bought on the free market like all other services.
- icebraining 14y agoThat argument is perfect in a theoretical world where no one choose to go into the medical profession. Back in real life, that doesn't happen. At most, you have to hire foreign doctors. So yes, it's a right, which like any other right, it's subject to the constraints of reality.
- mindcrime 14y agoReal world / hypothetical world / thought-experiment aside, the point stands: treating a service as an entitlement entails imposing an obligation on somebody else to provide that service, OR to pay for that service, etc. If granting one person a "right" means violating someone else's rights (that is, their right to choose how to direct their energy and the fruits of their labor) then it's unjust.
- icebraining 14y agoI don't think it's unjust to make people contribute to society through taxes if they want to live in it. They're free to opt-out from that implicit contract by going to live elsewhere. There's plenty of inhabited places on Earth still. In any case, rights can and are sometimes eclipsed by others. The idea of natural, absolute rights is just ridiculous.
- mindcrime 14y agoI respectfully disagree, but this really isn't the forum for this discussion, so I'll bow out here.
- runningdogx 14y agoYeah, I think me_myselft meant rights in terms of social justice, and not "fundamental rights" in the sense of abstract political philosophy. So many arguments get caught up over semantics and not what people are trying to say.
- cglace 14y ago"They're free to opt-out from that implicit contract by going to live elsewhere." Is it your position that everything can be justified by a persons ability to get up and move?
- icebraining 14y agoNo, just some.
- el_presidente 14y ago> It's a service that can be provided and bought on the free market like all other services. Maybe in a hypothetical world where you can find this hypothetical free market. In the real world, health care can be treated as a fundamental right because there are enough doctors available.
- CamperBob2 14y agoTry making those doctors work for free, and see how long there are "enough doctors available."
- icebraining 14y agoAnd we would do that... why?
- CamperBob2 14y agoEither the doctors will have to work for free, or the rest of us will, to pay for others' health care.
- icebraining 14y agoWe don't work for free, we work in exchange for the privilege of living in society.
- harshreality 14y agoWe pay for lots of services that only other people end up using. It's part of being in a society. When something is reasonably considered optional, ideally and hopefully you aren't forced to pay for other people's partaking of that optional service. Healthcare is not one of those things. It's optional in the sense that everyone has the option of refusing medical care, even if sometimes that means dying, but it's not optional in that almost every sane person with more than a minor cut or sniffles or food poisoning opts for medical care if it is available rather than the alternative. Other mandatory goods and services, like food, clothing, housing, city utilities (water/electricity), even internet access, work better in a mostly private model for a couple major reasons. First, the price variance for the necessary part of those goods and services is very low compared to variance for the medical costs someone might incur. Second, a lot of people can afford and want more than the bare necessities. Not so with medical care, where few people can afford major surgery or routine treatments for some major chronic conditions. Another aspect of medical care is that we benefit even if we're never treated. Do you know anyone who has ever needed significant medical care at a hospital? I doubt your relationship with those people means nothing to you.
- Tichy 14y agoThinking that way, btw, is bound to make you feel bitter. Why should you pay for other people? Why not think of it as insurance instead (social security)? Less desperate people means less muggers on the street. Less sick people means less risk to get infected yourself. Plus, should you ever happen to fall on hard times yourself (god forbid), you would be provided for. I believe in selfishness as the best basis for a society, and I still think it is in favor of social security and public health care. Discussing fundamental rights is bound to be bullshit. The only right that exists is the right of the stronger party (established by guns, majority votes etc). If the stronger party believes x is a right, it is a right. So if a majority of voters in a democracy is convinced x is a right (perhaps because the better smooth talker convinced them), it can become a right. That is all there is to it. Philosophy is irrelevant.
- Tichy 14y agoIs living a fundamental right?