4 ms·

So the following things are basically happening or exist right now: - we can map the brain structure using fMRI - we can change the structure (or parts of it)

So the following things are basically happening or exist right now: - we can map the brain structure using fMRI - we can change the structure (or parts of it) using ultrasound - we can (or soon will be) able to read thought patterns via LLMs analyzing brain waves To me, that sounds like we are not far off from being able to take an iterative approach to live brain modification. Both scary and fascinating at the same time.

4gotunameagain 3y ago
> we can (or soon will be) able to read thought patterns via LLMs analyzing brain waves source ? who says that the brain waves we can measure hold information like that in a useful level of granularity ? you can have something that distinguishes "angry" from "happy" etc, sure, but thought patterns ?
- chriskanan 3y ago
  Here are a couple papers related to this topic, but the primary focus has been on showing that LLM embeddings correlate with neural activity better than alternatives. But given one has neural recordings, one could train a model to take them as input and output what was heard. How well that would work, I think, is an open question. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.06.27.546708v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.06.27.546708v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.07.11.499562v3 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.07.11.499562v3
  - nickphx 3y ago
    Wouldn't the model need to be trained on some valid data before being used to guess/approximate output from input?
    - bgnn 3y ago
      yeah. yet people believe AI can do new things without training.
- caycep 3y ago
  It's actually a pretty big field in neurophysiology along several levels, and not just w/ LLMs, ppl are trying to throw more basic EE DSP at it. Most analyses can do simple things - i.e. differntiator/discriminator type things, but who's to say if recording technology gets better, more complicated thought patterns can't be interpreted LFP - "macro recordings" from larger electrical contacts like EEG, DBS leads, ECoG, i.e. waves from large areas of the brain single unit - smaller electrodes thought to capture recordings from 1 or a few neurons. There's actually a ton of stuff looking at differential responses of single unit brain waves against a lot of different psychological stimuli. NEURIPS had a couple of presentations on LLMs interpreting stuff from fMRI - maybe not "brain waves" technically speaking but it may be approaching "thought patterns".
lawlessone 3y ago
- we can use magnetic pulses to temporarily alter the conciousness of part of the brain, create the feeling of a "presence of God" etc. Note: I am not say there is or isn't a god(s). Just that this is how some people interpret the experience. The LLM thing sounds a bit off though. I think whatever article you read on this may have misinterpreted it.
- Sponge5 3y ago
  That's called transcranial therapy and what I've heard is that it usually just improves your mood temporarily, which is supposed to help you deal with depression and/or addiction.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
codedokode 3y ago
> - we can map the brain structure using fMRI fMRI has poor spatial (about 1mm) and temporal (about 1s) resolution.
- mianos 3y ago
  1mm is so massive, and 1 second is a massive timeframe, in relation to the mechanisms at play. There are so many papers (and retractions at massive scale) around attribution to fMRIs. Maybe it is because it would be a dream to see into the brain that the mainstream media keeps bringing this stuff up?
- keenmaster 3y ago
  Better magnets can improve MRI resolution eventually
omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
There have been PD trials with aDBS for the past 5-10 years iirc. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10357172/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10357172/

4gotunameagain 3y ago

> we can (or soon will be) able to read thought patterns via LLMs analyzing brain waves source ? who says that the brain waves we can measure hold information like that in a useful level of granularity ? you can have something that distinguishes "angry" from "happy" etc, sure, but thought patterns ?

chriskanan 3y ago
Here are a couple papers related to this topic, but the primary focus has been on showing that LLM embeddings correlate with neural activity better than alternatives. But given one has neural recordings, one could train a model to take them as input and output what was heard. How well that would work, I think, is an open question. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.06.27.546708v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.06.27.546708v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.07.11.499562v3 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.07.11.499562v3
- nickphx 3y ago
  Wouldn't the model need to be trained on some valid data before being used to guess/approximate output from input?
  - bgnn 3y ago
    yeah. yet people believe AI can do new things without training.
caycep 3y ago
It's actually a pretty big field in neurophysiology along several levels, and not just w/ LLMs, ppl are trying to throw more basic EE DSP at it. Most analyses can do simple things - i.e. differntiator/discriminator type things, but who's to say if recording technology gets better, more complicated thought patterns can't be interpreted LFP - "macro recordings" from larger electrical contacts like EEG, DBS leads, ECoG, i.e. waves from large areas of the brain single unit - smaller electrodes thought to capture recordings from 1 or a few neurons. There's actually a ton of stuff looking at differential responses of single unit brain waves against a lot of different psychological stimuli. NEURIPS had a couple of presentations on LLMs interpreting stuff from fMRI - maybe not "brain waves" technically speaking but it may be approaching "thought patterns".

lawlessone 3y ago

- we can use magnetic pulses to temporarily alter the conciousness of part of the brain, create the feeling of a "presence of God" etc. Note: I am not say there is or isn't a god(s). Just that this is how some people interpret the experience. The LLM thing sounds a bit off though. I think whatever article you read on this may have misinterpreted it.

Sponge5 3y ago
That's called transcranial therapy and what I've heard is that it usually just improves your mood temporarily, which is supposed to help you deal with depression and/or addiction.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

codedokode 3y ago

> - we can map the brain structure using fMRI fMRI has poor spatial (about 1mm) and temporal (about 1s) resolution.

mianos 3y ago
1mm is so massive, and 1 second is a massive timeframe, in relation to the mechanisms at play. There are so many papers (and retractions at massive scale) around attribution to fMRIs. Maybe it is because it would be a dream to see into the brain that the mainstream media keeps bringing this stuff up?
keenmaster 3y ago
Better magnets can improve MRI resolution eventually

omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago

There have been PD trials with aDBS for the past 5-10 years iirc. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10357172/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10357172/