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Should plastic containers shedding millions of nano particles be considered sanitary? The only reason it’s used is that the externalities aren’t properly taxed
by azemetre 3y ago
Should plastic containers shedding millions of nano particles be considered sanitary?
The only reason it’s used is that the externalities aren’t properly taxed (or not banned IMO).
Maybe we should not use things that are “easier” when they’re contributing to a massive amount of pollution. I mean there was an article posted here about finding microplastics in a human fetus.
Yet we still continue to use it.
- numpad0 3y agoBiologically it is. You could argue on long term effects of microplastics but it's clearly less of a risk than food poisoning.
- azemetre 3y agoWe're seriously going to say that a substance that was very recently introduced to human society is as risky as food poisoning? How often do the commoners have to suffer through businesses ill-attempt to save money while poisoning us? Leaded gasoline, chlorofluorocarbons, asbestos, pet food laced with poisons and filler, baby food laced with heavy metals, opioids, cigarettes, campaigns about seat belts being unsafe, round up, fracking that poisons the ground water, etc. Excuse me if I doubt the corporations, that continue to poison the the world around us unless literally forced by nation states not to, are being honest when they safe "oh it's not harmful" and not the reality of the situation. Wanting to save a buck, repercussions be damned. Why are you saying "clearly" as if it's 100% guaranteed? We have no idea the repercussions of introducing a new substance that has literally infiltrated all organic life on earth. This is completely new territory and acting like it's all "solved science" is extremely disingenuous.
- Tokkemon 3y agoPeople die from food poisoning. No one has died from microplastics, so far as we can tell.
- asadotzler 3y agoyou don't actually know that. if, imagine, the increase in dementia or cancer or any major illness is increased at all by microplastics, and we will find this out before long, and it will indict Big Plastic and Big Oil, we will learn it's killed far more of us that you whoring for Big Oil and Big Plastic suggests.
- azemetre 3y agoThese subthreads from my comments are absolutely bonkers, people are willing to give companies that routinely lie to us again and again sometimes lying for literal generations to us! and people STILL give them the benefit of the doubt. People willing to allow others to poison us so they can earn money.
- bullfightonmars 3y agoDo bottles shed microplastics? Manufacturer > store > pantry > garbage can > dump. Isn’t the majority of this buried in the ground in dumps that are sealed off from groundwater? I suspect our clothes, cars/tires, houses, and other things that live outside contribute more to microplastics than food containers.
- azemetre 3y agoYes, they shed plastics: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2024/01/12/plastic-bottles-nanoplastics https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2024/01/12/plastic-bottles-n... The question should be reversed, is there anything made of plastic that doesn't shed particles? It seems likely not, they all tend to shed.
- plussed_reader 3y agoDo air molecules in gaseous form colliding with the plastic contribute to micro-plastic production? Oxygen is a notoriously active element....
- singleshot_ 3y agoFair point, but I don’t store very much of my food in a tire and I rarely, if ever put food in a shirt before I microwave it. In the other hand, I probably have about a pound of Tupperware in my body. I guess my point is that you’re right about micro plastics in the environment, but I’m more concerned about the ones in me. (Strenuously agree that both are bad).
- infecto 3y agoI don’t know the exact sources and that’s what we should be studying. For all we know it’s tires to roadways to rain runoff that makes it into ground water or bodies of water that we eventually treat for drinking.
- singleshot_ 3y agoFair point. Needs more study before dummies like me make assumptions. (Still not buying any Tupperware, though).
- infecto 3y agoUnfortunately your kind of argument is what often comes up in ecological debates. I am not denying the impact of microplastics but raising the point that it is a complicated equation. Banning plastics is just a silly comment. What about tires, medical devices, plastic jugs to get water to people with no access to clean water. It is an easy argument to make if you might be in a place of privilege and you can hand wave most of those problems away. My posistion is that yes microplastics pose a possible issue on a go forward basis, I don't know the totality and I believe that humans are still better off than we were before plastics.
- azemetre 3y agoI'm not talking about just banning plastics (it should be banned involving anything food related IMO) but actually taxing these materials as the hazardous materials they surely are. Why would you ever expect a bottling plant to move away from plastic when there is no incentive? Why would anyone move to better materials or continue researching when there are cheaper alternatives that aren't rightfully taxed against their externalities? Why are we as a society, one which has banned lead from gasoline (resulting in lower crime rates across the world) or banning CFCs to repair the ozone layer, feel so helpless trying to hold these corporations accountable for not polluting our world around us today? Is it really that impossible?
- wahnfrieden 3y agoIt's possible but there is no voting solution to achieve it
- infecto 3y agoI don't think I generally agree with a plastic tax but lets imagine there was one. I am honestly not even sure how you would set the price, my whole point is the externalities are hard to measure. I also suspect the cost of the implementation will be on the shoulders of the consumer. We can hand wave it away and say we can create more rules to prevent it but at the end of the day that is most likely what will happen.
- 3y ago
- 0_____0 3y agoMost microplastics in your environment are from tires and textiles. Blow molded PE is way down the list on what I'm worried about.
- asadotzler 3y ago[flagged]
- criddell 3y agoIf this forum has gone to hell, it's because of bad faith arguments. The person you responded to isn't defending anything, they are just saying it is a lower priority.
- infecto 3y agoI don’t believe anyone has defended anything of that sort. Simply pointing out what are more bigger issue but we also don’t know how to solve those issues yet. You along with others have no issue saying plastic is evil, we should ban it, we should tax it, but have done no critical thinking on how to make that actually work.
- nonethewiser 3y ago> Should plastic containers shedding millions of nano particles be considered sanitary? It's not really on the scale of sanitariness. It's a pollutant and a problem. You can even say it's not worth the tradeoff. But no, plastics are not unsanitary because they can produce microsplastics.
- ska 3y agoI've read the main contributor to microplastics is car tires. Do you have an idea if these types of consumer containers are a significant source? Agree the incentives are screwed up, and that could help.