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Having bought a Toyota hybrid for the first time about 2 years ago, the value proposition was overwhelmingly in their favor. Cost the same or less as equivalent

Having bought a Toyota hybrid for the first time about 2 years ago, the value proposition was overwhelmingly in their favor. Cost the same or less as equivalent gas cars in their class, with about 30% to 50% less gas usage, meaning ongoing costs are way lower too. It was of course way cheaper than any reasonable electric car 2 years ago too, still probably is, and charging infrastructure was terrible where I live back then, still mostly is (but getting better). I think the years and years of PR around their top tier reliability helps a lot too. I guess the biggest gripe is the looks of their cars, they're basically boring, kind of ugly and utilitarian. But all of the above together kind of nails a segment of car buyers which is "I don't want to give a shit about my car, I need it to work well, not burn the planet too much, not cost a lot, and get me where I need to go", which is probably a pretty large segment.

ein0p 3y ago
People who don’t own electric cars usually don’t realize this, but if you own a home, you don’t really need “charging infrastructure”. For regular commute of ~15 miles each way a regular household outlet will suffice. Not having to drive anywhere to “refuel” is pretty nice IMO. As is not having to spend the better part of a day every year on scheduled maintenance because, well, none is required
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Regular gas vehicles don’t need the better part of a day every year for scheduled maintenance either. Full synthetic oil only needs to be changed after 5k miles, and most people can get away with 8k miles. It is at most 1 hour at a mechanic, but probably less than 30min at an oil change specific place like Valvoline. Cabin and engine air filter is a 5min job anyone can do too. The only other regular thing needed is tire rotations, although that applies to EV also. Obviously, not having to deal with all that gas related drivetrain is great. But is it worth an extra $10k to $20k or more? Probably not for most.
  - ein0p 3y ago
    Dunno, BMW requires that you drop off your car for the entire day. And you don’t get a loaner either. So did VW, Toyota and Subaru I had in the past. All recommend changing oil at least once a year. Hugely inconvenient and disrespectful of my time. I frankly don’t see why dealers don’t make this a 15 minute affair like the various lube shops to which one would be reluctant to take their car while it’s under warranty. Also, a well equipped Prius is like $40k nowadays if you haven’t checked the prices lately.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      It takes me about 1-hour to change my own oil for $35. I do full synthetic because why not? (Conventional oil would be like $28 but... spending the extra money for nicer oil is is so cheap anyway...) EDIT: The only reason it takes me 1-hour to change my oil is that I also do my own tire-rotations at the same time. The oil change is... really easy. > Also, a well equipped Prius is like $40k nowadays if you haven’t checked the prices lately. A Corolla Hybrid is like $25k.
    - cityofdelusion 3y ago
      There’s no reason to get an oil change at a dealer, it exists solely to upsell on other services. New cars under warranty can get a 15 minute oil job just fine, it’s removing one bolt and reinstalling it for 99% of cars.
      - dragontamer 3y ago
        I never understood people who complained about oil changes. Do... people not rotate their tires or something? EVs are heavier and therefore have more tire-wear. Its probably more important to rotate those tires. Oil Change + Tire Rotation is pretty typical service. Even if you get rid of oil changes, the tires still should go around-and-round.
        ein0p 3y ago
        I never even heard of tire rotation before I moved to the US.
brtkdotse 3y ago
> they're basically boring, kind of ugly and utilitarian. Good, it’s what cars should be. “Car culture” is a plight on society and the sooner we break free of tying our self worth to our cars the better.

ein0p 3y ago

People who don’t own electric cars usually don’t realize this, but if you own a home, you don’t really need “charging infrastructure”. For regular commute of ~15 miles each way a regular household outlet will suffice. Not having to drive anywhere to “refuel” is pretty nice IMO. As is not having to spend the better part of a day every year on scheduled maintenance because, well, none is required

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Regular gas vehicles don’t need the better part of a day every year for scheduled maintenance either. Full synthetic oil only needs to be changed after 5k miles, and most people can get away with 8k miles. It is at most 1 hour at a mechanic, but probably less than 30min at an oil change specific place like Valvoline. Cabin and engine air filter is a 5min job anyone can do too. The only other regular thing needed is tire rotations, although that applies to EV also. Obviously, not having to deal with all that gas related drivetrain is great. But is it worth an extra $10k to $20k or more? Probably not for most.
- ein0p 3y ago
  Dunno, BMW requires that you drop off your car for the entire day. And you don’t get a loaner either. So did VW, Toyota and Subaru I had in the past. All recommend changing oil at least once a year. Hugely inconvenient and disrespectful of my time. I frankly don’t see why dealers don’t make this a 15 minute affair like the various lube shops to which one would be reluctant to take their car while it’s under warranty. Also, a well equipped Prius is like $40k nowadays if you haven’t checked the prices lately.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    It takes me about 1-hour to change my own oil for $35. I do full synthetic because why not? (Conventional oil would be like $28 but... spending the extra money for nicer oil is is so cheap anyway...) EDIT: The only reason it takes me 1-hour to change my oil is that I also do my own tire-rotations at the same time. The oil change is... really easy. > Also, a well equipped Prius is like $40k nowadays if you haven’t checked the prices lately. A Corolla Hybrid is like $25k.
  - cityofdelusion 3y ago
    There’s no reason to get an oil change at a dealer, it exists solely to upsell on other services. New cars under warranty can get a 15 minute oil job just fine, it’s removing one bolt and reinstalling it for 99% of cars.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      I never understood people who complained about oil changes. Do... people not rotate their tires or something? EVs are heavier and therefore have more tire-wear. Its probably more important to rotate those tires. Oil Change + Tire Rotation is pretty typical service. Even if you get rid of oil changes, the tires still should go around-and-round.
      - ein0p 3y ago
        I never even heard of tire rotation before I moved to the US.

brtkdotse 3y ago

> they're basically boring, kind of ugly and utilitarian. Good, it’s what cars should be. “Car culture” is a plight on society and the sooner we break free of tying our self worth to our cars the better.