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I know HN users hate modern UI trends. But for the record, GNOME actually has professional UI designers (Red Hat employees or volunteers) designing their UI. h

by maxloh 3y ago

I know HN users hate modern UI trends. But for the record, GNOME actually has professional UI designers (Red Hat employees or volunteers) designing their UI. https://gitlab.gnome.org/Teams/Design/os-mockups https://gitlab.gnome.org/Teams/Design/os-mockups

RedShift1 3y ago
Do they test with end users thoroughly, like Microsoft and Apple did back in the 80's and 90's?
- netdur 3y ago
  Yes, The team behind Ximian, before being acquired by SUSE, was involved in early efforts to improve the usability of desktop Linux for end users. They conducted usability studies and published videos of these sessions to highlight where users encountered difficulties. These efforts were part of a broader initiative within the GNOME project to enhance user experience and make the GNOME desktop environment more intuitive and accessible to a wider audience.
  - sho_hn 3y ago
    FWIW, we've also had professional usability experts involved with KDE many times over the years. E.g. the OpenUsability initiative, which KDE helped set up, was run by HCI professionals and conducted a fair number of user studies, produced research docs, and so on. The difference perhaps is that OpenUsability didn't limit itself to working only on KDE (and also helped out, e.g. LibreOffice), that's why it somehow didn't get booked as a KDE thing and didn't become a similar anecdote people cite now.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Gnome 2 was indeed pretty ok though not very comfortable for lack of configurability. Gnome 3 is really the problem which is why there's so many that replicate gnome 2, like cinnamon and mate. Gnome 3 is really like KDE 4, too much messing around for the sake of it. But another thing I really like about KDE is that there's not a giant behind it like redhat, they're free from commercial motives to make their own choices.
- alxlaz 3y ago
  They do, but their resources are fairly limited so the methodology is abysmal. See https://blogs.gnome.org/shell-dev/2021/02/15/shell-ux-changes-the-research/ https://blogs.gnome.org/shell-dev/2021/02/15/shell-ux-change... for an example. They don't so much test with end users as gather anecdotes (and then largely ignore test results that contradict their existing design guidelines anyway).
wkat4242 3y ago
Yet it's horrible to use and really wasteful. Huge window handles that make no sense on a desktop without touch, unnecessary extra clicks by hiding things in hamburger menus. Again something handy on a mobile, not a desktop. Almost no customisation. It might satisfy hipster designers but not users.
- kroltan 3y ago
  Yep, I much prefer KDE's default binding of meta+LMB/RMB anywhere on a window to move and resize it, rather than ginormous title bars. Might not be "professional" but it sure is more productive.
  - PcChip 3y ago
    I change it to alt, and then also install Alt Drag on windows devices, so I can do that everywhere!
  - PKop 3y ago
    And you can easily make KDE title bars even smaller by changing the title text size, and use global menu and hide title bar in maximized windows. Massively better use of screen real estate than GNOME. Imo much more "professional" and productive vs GNOME's cartoonish touch screen UI.
    - kroltan 3y ago
      Heh, I made my own window borders (yay for customizability!), which are slightly chonky but still half of GNOME's. https://i.imgur.com/XcZvanv.png https://i.imgur.com/XcZvanv.png (Burnt yellow is my current system accent color, the borders adapt to the setting)
      - PKop 3y ago
        Nice.. definitely a bit chonky but distinctive. I like the yellow. Hadn't thought of doing that but I probably would prefer something besides the default blue.
ffgjgf1 3y ago
Windows 8 was also designed by professional UI designers…
- mirpa 3y ago
  And Windows 11... web content in start menu, unproductive, extremely distracting - ugh
  - binkHN 3y ago
    I think the Windows 11 UI has been augmented by professional bean counters...
vrighter 3y ago
them being professionals does not imply they're doing a good job. Lots of dumpster fires, across a broad range of industries, were designed by professionals.
blueflow 3y ago
This really disappoints me because their UI design is the main thing that drove me away. Too many non-discoverable gestures.
- anhner 3y ago
  > Too many non-discoverable gestures. taking inspiration from MacOS i see
shiroiushi 3y ago
>But for the record, GNOME actually has professional UI designers (Red Hat employees or volunteers) designing their UI. Windows 8 and later were all designed by professional UI designers. Also, every single company website or app that has absolutely atrocious UI was designed by a professional UI designer.

by maxloh 3y ago

RedShift1 3y ago

Do they test with end users thoroughly, like Microsoft and Apple did back in the 80's and 90's?

netdur 3y ago
Yes, The team behind Ximian, before being acquired by SUSE, was involved in early efforts to improve the usability of desktop Linux for end users. They conducted usability studies and published videos of these sessions to highlight where users encountered difficulties. These efforts were part of a broader initiative within the GNOME project to enhance user experience and make the GNOME desktop environment more intuitive and accessible to a wider audience.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  FWIW, we've also had professional usability experts involved with KDE many times over the years. E.g. the OpenUsability initiative, which KDE helped set up, was run by HCI professionals and conducted a fair number of user studies, produced research docs, and so on. The difference perhaps is that OpenUsability didn't limit itself to working only on KDE (and also helped out, e.g. LibreOffice), that's why it somehow didn't get booked as a KDE thing and didn't become a similar anecdote people cite now.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Gnome 2 was indeed pretty ok though not very comfortable for lack of configurability. Gnome 3 is really the problem which is why there's so many that replicate gnome 2, like cinnamon and mate. Gnome 3 is really like KDE 4, too much messing around for the sake of it. But another thing I really like about KDE is that there's not a giant behind it like redhat, they're free from commercial motives to make their own choices.
alxlaz 3y ago
They do, but their resources are fairly limited so the methodology is abysmal. See https://blogs.gnome.org/shell-dev/2021/02/15/shell-ux-changes-the-research/ https://blogs.gnome.org/shell-dev/2021/02/15/shell-ux-change... for an example. They don't so much test with end users as gather anecdotes (and then largely ignore test results that contradict their existing design guidelines anyway).

wkat4242 3y ago

Yet it's horrible to use and really wasteful. Huge window handles that make no sense on a desktop without touch, unnecessary extra clicks by hiding things in hamburger menus. Again something handy on a mobile, not a desktop. Almost no customisation. It might satisfy hipster designers but not users.

kroltan 3y ago
Yep, I much prefer KDE's default binding of meta+LMB/RMB anywhere on a window to move and resize it, rather than ginormous title bars. Might not be "professional" but it sure is more productive.
- PcChip 3y ago
  I change it to alt, and then also install Alt Drag on windows devices, so I can do that everywhere!
- PKop 3y ago
  And you can easily make KDE title bars even smaller by changing the title text size, and use global menu and hide title bar in maximized windows. Massively better use of screen real estate than GNOME. Imo much more "professional" and productive vs GNOME's cartoonish touch screen UI.
  - kroltan 3y ago
    Heh, I made my own window borders (yay for customizability!), which are slightly chonky but still half of GNOME's. https://i.imgur.com/XcZvanv.png https://i.imgur.com/XcZvanv.png (Burnt yellow is my current system accent color, the borders adapt to the setting)
    - PKop 3y ago
      Nice.. definitely a bit chonky but distinctive. I like the yellow. Hadn't thought of doing that but I probably would prefer something besides the default blue.

ffgjgf1 3y ago

Windows 8 was also designed by professional UI designers…

mirpa 3y ago
And Windows 11... web content in start menu, unproductive, extremely distracting - ugh
- binkHN 3y ago
  I think the Windows 11 UI has been augmented by professional bean counters...

vrighter 3y ago

them being professionals does not imply they're doing a good job. Lots of dumpster fires, across a broad range of industries, were designed by professionals.

blueflow 3y ago

This really disappoints me because their UI design is the main thing that drove me away. Too many non-discoverable gestures.

anhner 3y ago
> Too many non-discoverable gestures. taking inspiration from MacOS i see

shiroiushi 3y ago

>But for the record, GNOME actually has professional UI designers (Red Hat employees or volunteers) designing their UI. Windows 8 and later were all designed by professional UI designers. Also, every single company website or app that has absolutely atrocious UI was designed by a professional UI designer.