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When we had to go into SCIFs, generally phones went into lockers. At some locations, phones stayed in cars. But that doesn't make it any harder to figure out.

When we had to go into SCIFs, generally phones went into lockers. At some locations, phones stayed in cars. But that doesn't make it any harder to figure out. But this isn't the first time people are encountering this problem. Strava has given away plenty of US military bases: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracking-app-gives-away-location-of-secret-us-army-bases https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracki... Russia has the same problem, VKontakte has given away plenty of secret Russian military bases and troop positions over the past few decades. I've never read of this on Weibo or WeChat, but my guess is they have the same problem, just English language open source accounts are keeping it more discrete for now. The WashPost about a week ago had an article about how at a recent NTC rotation out at Fort Irwin the OPFOR was trying to figure out how an Apache had gotten past their air defenses, so they looked up commercial cell phone tracking data and were able to spot how a phone had gone across the desert at 120 mph and plug the hole in their air defenses.[1] Adtech on the cell phone we all carry in our pocket is better at surveillance than the best tools a military has. And it's one of those things where not being part of the surveillance can make you stand out too. Think about a spy operating under a real cover, how long is their Facebook (or Weibo or VK or TikTok or whatever is appropriate for the person they are trying to be) account history? If you found someone claiming to be a 45 year old woman living in an American suburb and she had a Facebook account that was three months old, wouldn't you investigate further? 1: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/02/22/ukraine-war-pentagon-lessons-learned/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/02/22/...

nradov 3y ago
Supposedly a Ukrainian agent was able to assassinate a Russian military officer by tracking his regular running route on Strava. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66162502 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66162502 Strava actually has extensive privacy controls that work well. Users can keep activities private by default and hide their tracks near sensitive locations. But of course if you don't use the privacy control and make everything public then obviously everyone can see exactly where you were.
- HenryBemis 3y ago
  It brought this to mind: Fitness tracking app Strava gives away location of secret US army bases https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracking-app-gives-away-location-of-secret-us-army-bases https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracki...
  - pests 3y ago
    This was linked in the GP comment.
- baybal2 3y ago
  [dead]
Aerbil313 3y ago
This is a scary thought. Not because I think I'm worthy of being targeted, but because I think in the future there'll be enough compute and incentives to automatically scan everyone for out-of-the-ordinary behavior via neural models.
- CatWChainsaw 3y ago
  The killer drones will remind you of what ordinary behavior is so you aren't tempted to deviate.
ok_dad 3y ago
When I was in the military cell phones were extremely new, but I honestly don't see why most commands don't say "leave phones and other electronics at home when coming to base" and then you just tell anyone who needs to contact you to call the command quarterdeck or whatever. Examples you just gave are good reasons to do this, much like how in the 90's during Desert Storm several people figured out (post-hoc, but still) that there were a buttload more pizza orders from government offices relating to the invasion of Iraq. I'm a former shithead officer, though, so it's easy for me to just say "ban the phones!" instead of trying to figure out a smarter solution. Maybe beepers will make a comeback, since you can't track a multicast, receive-only client?
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > When I was in the military cell phones were extremely new, but I honestly don't see why most commands don't say "leave phones and other electronics at home when coming to base" and then you just tell anyone who needs to contact you to call the command quarterdeck or whatever. Because soldiers will just go and take their phones anyway - they will want to keep in touch with their families. The solution to this problem is to kill off the targeted ads market in its entirety. Maybe national security is the only way to actually make that go through.
  - mckn1ght 3y ago
    Seems like something the NSA should be in charge of, maintaining a custom Android ROM or even a fully custom built OS/device.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      Just browsing the web is enough to deliver enough metadata to RTBs to make correlations possible.
      - mckn1ght 3y ago
        If I were the shot caller I’d have it tunnel to an NSA data center via a proprietary protocol. Then the data center makes the request with IP/HTTP, then serves the data back to the client again in the proprietary protocol.

nradov 3y ago

Supposedly a Ukrainian agent was able to assassinate a Russian military officer by tracking his regular running route on Strava. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66162502 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66162502 Strava actually has extensive privacy controls that work well. Users can keep activities private by default and hide their tracks near sensitive locations. But of course if you don't use the privacy control and make everything public then obviously everyone can see exactly where you were.

HenryBemis 3y ago
It brought this to mind: Fitness tracking app Strava gives away location of secret US army bases https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracking-app-gives-away-location-of-secret-us-army-bases https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracki...
- pests 3y ago
  This was linked in the GP comment.
baybal2 3y ago
[dead]

Aerbil313 3y ago

This is a scary thought. Not because I think I'm worthy of being targeted, but because I think in the future there'll be enough compute and incentives to automatically scan everyone for out-of-the-ordinary behavior via neural models.

CatWChainsaw 3y ago
The killer drones will remind you of what ordinary behavior is so you aren't tempted to deviate.

ok_dad 3y ago

When I was in the military cell phones were extremely new, but I honestly don't see why most commands don't say "leave phones and other electronics at home when coming to base" and then you just tell anyone who needs to contact you to call the command quarterdeck or whatever. Examples you just gave are good reasons to do this, much like how in the 90's during Desert Storm several people figured out (post-hoc, but still) that there were a buttload more pizza orders from government offices relating to the invasion of Iraq. I'm a former shithead officer, though, so it's easy for me to just say "ban the phones!" instead of trying to figure out a smarter solution. Maybe beepers will make a comeback, since you can't track a multicast, receive-only client?

mschuster91 3y ago
> When I was in the military cell phones were extremely new, but I honestly don't see why most commands don't say "leave phones and other electronics at home when coming to base" and then you just tell anyone who needs to contact you to call the command quarterdeck or whatever. Because soldiers will just go and take their phones anyway - they will want to keep in touch with their families. The solution to this problem is to kill off the targeted ads market in its entirety. Maybe national security is the only way to actually make that go through.
- mckn1ght 3y ago
  Seems like something the NSA should be in charge of, maintaining a custom Android ROM or even a fully custom built OS/device.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Just browsing the web is enough to deliver enough metadata to RTBs to make correlations possible.
    - mckn1ght 3y ago
      If I were the shot caller I’d have it tunnel to an NSA data center via a proprietary protocol. Then the data center makes the request with IP/HTTP, then serves the data back to the client again in the proprietary protocol.