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I understand there are some larger compliance-related issues that need to be solved and that this seems like it's an unintended consequence of the regulatory re

I understand there are some larger compliance-related issues that need to be solved and that this seems like it's an unintended consequence of the regulatory requirements put in place to solve this. But there are huge consequences for small business owners in requiring a physical address. I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, because providing _any_ address for my business is a fiction. My business is where ever I am. To date, I've paid for a registered agent service in my state so I can use their address. It costs me several hundred dollars a year for the "convenience" of not listing my home address in public records, which again, would also not be accurate because my business does not exist in my home. Same with a nonprofit I'm involved with - the nonprofit exists on Zoom and in temporary space we rent for meetings and events, and we receive mail to a PO Box. There are also further downstream implications to this kind of problem. Suddenly if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors.

gamblor956 3y ago
Your business's primary place of business is your home (referring specifically to the parent comment, not businesses in general). That you can also carry out the business where ever you physically are does not change that basic fact from a legal or tax perspective. Zoning compliance is not required for a home office (assuming white collar type work). Many, but not all jurisdictions require business licenses, even for home offices. This does not trigger inspections, because a business license isn't about the workplace, it's about the business itself. EDIT/FOLLOWUP: Your "place of business" does not need to be your mailing address, because you can use a PO Box. It also doesn't need to be your address for legal service (i.e., for service of lawsuits), since most companies use a registered agent for that. At the most basic level, for a solo entrepreneur, your place of business is simply the one common location to which you have a legal right from which you do at least some of your business. In the absence of an owned or leased/subleased office or other workplace, it defaults to your residence.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  What if I never do business in my home, but instead operate out of libraries, coffee shops, or client's locations? Picture a carpet cleaning van parked on the street, for example.
  - friendzis 3y ago
    Where you do business and where you carry out business operations are quite often very different locations.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    If you're a sole practitioner (what this article is about) - by definition - your business is you. And you are most often in your home. It's not that complicated. You want the benefits of a business while not having to worry about angry customers annoying you at your house. I don't blame you. We all want to have cake and eat it, too.
    - NewJazz 3y ago
      you are most often in your home Yet another baseless assumption. You want the benefits of a business while not having to worry about angry customers annoying you at your house Or one may wish to continue making money to feed themselves even though they cannot afford housing. Have you ever had to apply for apartments on self employment income?
    - mattgreenrocks 3y ago
      > You want the benefits of a business while not having to worry about angry customers annoying you at your house. What's the alternative here? Pay a couple hundred a year for a forwarding address that is sufficiently real enough for Stripe to accept? Asking out of personal interest. I'm working on the solopreneur route and looking at what's available for myself. Would prefer to keep it away from my personal address.
      - hazmazlaz 3y ago
hankchinaski 3y ago
There are virtual office addresses for this very reason
- MBCook 3y ago
  That was my first thought. How is one of those small offices in a building somewhere that have 4700 businesses “located” in that one office any different from a PO Box at a local UPS store? Effectively it’s not. They’re both lies. But one got cut off so now the other will pick up the slack.
mattgreenrocks 3y ago
> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide I think this is the crux of it: who could see this information? Where is it flowing to now, and where can it flow to in the future?
Aurornis 3y ago
> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, Is Stripe revealing this address to customers? This page only says a business address must be provided, not that it will be revealed to customers. If you have a business, you already have a business address and you're paying taxes somewhere. Why can't you use that address? > Suddenly if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors What country are you in? Do you have any examples of this happening, or is this just a hypothetical you came up with? Regardless, if your business is registered and you're paying taxes then, again, there's already an address associated with it. Stripe verifying this address isn't going to send local inspectors to your home.
- anticorporate 3y ago
  > If you have a business, you already have a business address and you're paying taxes somewhere. Why can't you use that address? As I said, I pay for the privilege of having a fictional address with a registered agent. It's a racket, but unfortunately, an unavoidable one until we stop this nonsense. > What country are you in? Do you have any examples of this happening, or is this just a hypothetical you came up with? The United States, and yes, I personally know someone who this happened to. > Regardless, if your business is registered and you're paying taxes then, again, there's already an address associated with it. Stripe verifying this address isn't going to send local inspectors to your home. My problem isn't with Stripe, it's with governments creating unnecessary hoops for people to jump through that don't actually solve any compliance issues. I pay for the privilege of avoiding it with a third party service that provides an address. I shouldn't have to. It doesn't help me, and it doesn't actually do anything for regulatory compliance.
- jjav 3y ago
  > Is Stripe revealing this address to customers? One needs to assume that policies can always change. I don't know if they are revealing the addresses today, but once they have them, they may well start revealing them next month. Or they may have a data breach that just leaks everything.
mytailorisrich 3y ago
In my jurisdiction, and I suppose many others, a business must provide a physical address in order to incorporate, known as the registered address. This does not have to be the place of business but is to ensure that legal documents may be served and other official letters delivered. There are many services offering virtual office addresses for this. It is not a problem. In fact, would you go into business with a company that has no address?
Arainach 3y ago
> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, because providing _any_ address for my business is a fiction. Surely you see how this is also a desirable trait for every scammer out there? > if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors. "this change makes it harder to violate the law" is not a compelling argument
- anticorporate 3y ago
  You're missing the point. I don't operate a business from my home. I operate a business from my truck and from client sites. There literally is not a business at my home.
  - Arainach 3y ago
    All businesses have a home. They must comply with a set of laws (yes, including business permits) and be able to respond to disputes. A business with no physical location is not practical in society.
    - anticorporate 3y ago
      > A business with no physical location is not practical in society. That's an opinion, and my point is that I do not hold that opinion. It's only not practical because we make it impractical, not because any benefit is gained by forcing people to jump through hoops to set up and pay for virtual addresses.
      - Arainach 3y ago
        The ability to compel someone to appear and answer for crimes committee by a business is a huge benefit. So is ensuring local businesses aren't undercut by businesses who claim no jurisdiction.

gamblor956 3y ago

Your business's primary place of business is your home (referring specifically to the parent comment, not businesses in general). That you can also carry out the business where ever you physically are does not change that basic fact from a legal or tax perspective. Zoning compliance is not required for a home office (assuming white collar type work). Many, but not all jurisdictions require business licenses, even for home offices. This does not trigger inspections, because a business license isn't about the workplace, it's about the business itself. EDIT/FOLLOWUP: Your "place of business" does not need to be your mailing address, because you can use a PO Box. It also doesn't need to be your address for legal service (i.e., for service of lawsuits), since most companies use a registered agent for that. At the most basic level, for a solo entrepreneur, your place of business is simply the one common location to which you have a legal right from which you do at least some of your business. In the absence of an owned or leased/subleased office or other workplace, it defaults to your residence.

NewJazz 3y ago
What if I never do business in my home, but instead operate out of libraries, coffee shops, or client's locations? Picture a carpet cleaning van parked on the street, for example.
- friendzis 3y ago
  Where you do business and where you carry out business operations are quite often very different locations.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  If you're a sole practitioner (what this article is about) - by definition - your business is you. And you are most often in your home. It's not that complicated. You want the benefits of a business while not having to worry about angry customers annoying you at your house. I don't blame you. We all want to have cake and eat it, too.
  - NewJazz 3y ago
    you are most often in your home Yet another baseless assumption. You want the benefits of a business while not having to worry about angry customers annoying you at your house Or one may wish to continue making money to feed themselves even though they cannot afford housing. Have you ever had to apply for apartments on self employment income?
  - mattgreenrocks 3y ago
    > You want the benefits of a business while not having to worry about angry customers annoying you at your house. What's the alternative here? Pay a couple hundred a year for a forwarding address that is sufficiently real enough for Stripe to accept? Asking out of personal interest. I'm working on the solopreneur route and looking at what's available for myself. Would prefer to keep it away from my personal address.
    - hazmazlaz 3y ago

hankchinaski 3y ago

There are virtual office addresses for this very reason

MBCook 3y ago
That was my first thought. How is one of those small offices in a building somewhere that have 4700 businesses “located” in that one office any different from a PO Box at a local UPS store? Effectively it’s not. They’re both lies. But one got cut off so now the other will pick up the slack.

mattgreenrocks 3y ago

> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide I think this is the crux of it: who could see this information? Where is it flowing to now, and where can it flow to in the future?

Aurornis 3y ago

> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, Is Stripe revealing this address to customers? This page only says a business address must be provided, not that it will be revealed to customers. If you have a business, you already have a business address and you're paying taxes somewhere. Why can't you use that address? > Suddenly if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors What country are you in? Do you have any examples of this happening, or is this just a hypothetical you came up with? Regardless, if your business is registered and you're paying taxes then, again, there's already an address associated with it. Stripe verifying this address isn't going to send local inspectors to your home.

anticorporate 3y ago
> If you have a business, you already have a business address and you're paying taxes somewhere. Why can't you use that address? As I said, I pay for the privilege of having a fictional address with a registered agent. It's a racket, but unfortunately, an unavoidable one until we stop this nonsense. > What country are you in? Do you have any examples of this happening, or is this just a hypothetical you came up with? The United States, and yes, I personally know someone who this happened to. > Regardless, if your business is registered and you're paying taxes then, again, there's already an address associated with it. Stripe verifying this address isn't going to send local inspectors to your home. My problem isn't with Stripe, it's with governments creating unnecessary hoops for people to jump through that don't actually solve any compliance issues. I pay for the privilege of avoiding it with a third party service that provides an address. I shouldn't have to. It doesn't help me, and it doesn't actually do anything for regulatory compliance.
jjav 3y ago
> Is Stripe revealing this address to customers? One needs to assume that policies can always change. I don't know if they are revealing the addresses today, but once they have them, they may well start revealing them next month. Or they may have a data breach that just leaks everything.

mytailorisrich 3y ago

In my jurisdiction, and I suppose many others, a business must provide a physical address in order to incorporate, known as the registered address. This does not have to be the place of business but is to ensure that legal documents may be served and other official letters delivered. There are many services offering virtual office addresses for this. It is not a problem. In fact, would you go into business with a company that has no address?

Arainach 3y ago

> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, because providing _any_ address for my business is a fiction. Surely you see how this is also a desirable trait for every scammer out there? > if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors. "this change makes it harder to violate the law" is not a compelling argument

anticorporate 3y ago
You're missing the point. I don't operate a business from my home. I operate a business from my truck and from client sites. There literally is not a business at my home.
- Arainach 3y ago
  All businesses have a home. They must comply with a set of laws (yes, including business permits) and be able to respond to disputes. A business with no physical location is not practical in society.
  - anticorporate 3y ago
    > A business with no physical location is not practical in society. That's an opinion, and my point is that I do not hold that opinion. It's only not practical because we make it impractical, not because any benefit is gained by forcing people to jump through hoops to set up and pay for virtual addresses.
    - Arainach 3y ago
      The ability to compel someone to appear and answer for crimes committee by a business is a huge benefit. So is ensuring local businesses aren't undercut by businesses who claim no jurisdiction.