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What is the "mathematically perfect" aspect of this system? I don't see it in the article.
by jb1991 3y ago
What is the "mathematically perfect" aspect of this system? I don't see it in the article.
- aliceryhl 3y agoThe caption for the picture says this: > The six planets orbit their central star HD 110067 in a harmonic rhythm with planets aligning every few orbits.
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- tromp 3y agoAs detailed in the companion article [1], for every 54 orbits of planet 1, planets 2..6 orbit 36, 24, 16, 12, and 8 times respectively, giving successive ratios of 2/3, 2/3, 2/3, 3/4 and 3/4. After those 54 planet 1 orbits, all planets are in the same relative position. [1] https://www.space.com/six-sub-neptunes-found-100-light-years-from-earth https://www.space.com/six-sub-neptunes-found-100-light-years...
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y agoIf a K1.5 wanted to do that just for shits and giggles, is there a viable way to slow down or speed up orbits of rocky planets? Like, wouldn't they be shooting a bunch of mass out of their system to even attempt this? If one could build a Dyson sphere, is that more difficult or less difficult than engineering a system like this? The sphere/swarm has some absurd amount of mass all in a very uniform orbit around the sun, and most of that mass didn't start there... so it sort of seems like it's equivalent (but if so, they're much closer to K2 than K1).
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- neocritter 3y agoIf they have that level of control, they could simply arrange for planets to smash each other to bits and reform as a Dyson sphere.
- ordu 3y ago> is there a viable way to slow down or speed up orbits of rocky planets? You can fly something massive near a target planet, while using some kind of engine to keep a distance. Gravity will do the rest. It may take some time of course, but all you need is to do maintainance on an engine regularly. > Like, wouldn't they be shooting a bunch of mass out of their system to even attempt this? It depends on a type of an engine. If you use solar sail for example it is not the mass but light will be thrown out. > one could build a Dyson sphere, is that more difficult or less difficult than engineering a system like this? Sphere seems to me more difficult. Not in a sense of energies involved, but from a standpoint of engineering.
- QuadmasterXLII 3y agoThere's some principle that for a chaotic system, if the accuracy with which you can measure it is smaller than the largest perturbations you can make to it, you are willing to wait many Lyapunov times, and you have enough compute; then you can control the system. With this after a few dozens of millions of years you could control the small bodies of the solar system using relatively small thrusters and a big radar installation, and then put them all on aldrin cycler orbits to move momentum between the larger bodies.
- swores 3y ago> After those 54 planet 1 orbits, all planets are in the same position. Could you please explain what you mean by this, as to my layman's ears that sounds like either a confusingly-worded sentence, or an impossibility (multiple planets in the same location at the same time). Do they just all pass through one specific same location once per orbit but at different times? Or something else I'm not imagining?
- NegativeK 3y agoThey're in the same position they started, at the beginning of the planet 1's 54 orbits.
- swores 3y agoAhh, thanks
- QuarterReptile 3y agoThe planets have nice harmonics, so that rather than planet 1 and planet 2 having some irrational ratio (planet 1 goes around every 2.64782362 times for planet 2) it's round fraction like 1/2. When you string the whole thing, the lowest common multiple of revolutions is 54, so that only every 54 planet-1-years, realignment returns. The researchers hypothesize that this is sufficiently improbable to point toward an embodied intelligence as the cause.
- CapeTheory 3y agoThe Devs thought this solar system was outside our render distance, so they used default placeholder values for everything. Should be patched in the next release.
- tejtm 3y agoThe same thing said different. Every 54 planet-one orbits, a line from the star to planet-one would continue on through the rest of the planets. (* assuming they are nominally on the same plane)
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- jamiek88 3y agoEasily explained by natural and common resonance. A good keyword is entrainment.
- Supermancho 3y agoDo you doubt that alternate theories are part of the calculus? Why have an investigation at all?
- hermitcrab 3y agoIt is not at all clear to me why the harmonics makes it any more worth searching for aliens than any other solar system. a) Why would aliens expend the enormous energy required to engineer this? b) Isn't it vastly more likely to occur naturally as some sort of resonance effect?
- wolverine876 3y ago> a) Why would aliens expend the enormous energy required to engineer this? Maybe they built the system, and being lazy like we are they chose some simple numbers > b) Isn't it vastly more likely to occur naturally as some sort of resonance effect? Alien intelligence may be less likely than a natural effect, but alien intelligence in this system is much more likely than in a random system.
- whatisthis9 3y agoMaybe we are looking at a case of alien artificial intelligence, e.g. the classic hollywood scenario where an alien society was eventually replaced by sentient AI(e.g. kaylons, cylons, etc).
- jamesgreenleaf 3y ago> Why would aliens expend the enormous energy required to engineer this? So there are these great big buildings in Egypt...
- aswanson 3y agoLol
- a_gnostic 3y ago…mostly big piles of rocks… nothing too special…
- hypertele-Xii 3y agoSo these ancient granite constructions exhibit tool markings of computer-aided design precision, laser cutting, and power drilling. These enormous granite obselisks weigh more than even modern cranes can lift. But they were allegedly "hand-chiseled" and lifted from quarries by a dozen men with ropes. Yet no-one with actual modern computers and lasers and drills and cranes has been able to replicate any of it. Oh and every ancient structure is "ceremonial" that these stone age people built in their spare time.
- Animats 3y agoNeat. Is this something that tends to happen if there are large planets close to the star? In our solar system, the inner planets are small and the big outer planets are too far out to affect each other much.
- hinkley 3y agoSome of the Jovian moons are in harmonic orbits.
- neilkk 3y agoThe last ratio should be 2/3 again.
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- tromp 3y agoActually the ratios are correct [1], but the typo is in my inferred orbit count for planet 6 which should be 9, not 8. Well spotted! [1] https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/DEAyqYXn7pfD7ZboApakhe-1200-80.png https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/DEAyqYXn7pfD7ZboApakhe-120...
- neilkk 3y agoThis makes sense, since if all the orbit numbers were even the ratio could be expressed in simpler terms.
- not2b 3y agoThis could be a natural phenomenon. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_resonance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_resonance
- TheOtherHobbes 3y agoIt's mentioned in the preceding article and the two papers that are linked. In spite of the title no one is wondering if aliens moved planets around to park them in special orbits. It's infinitely more likely the resonances developed naturally. Also, none of the planets are in the habitable zone, so it's unlikely there's life on them. Which is a shame, because if the star was much dimmer and they were in the habitable zone, the views would make a stunning tourist attraction.
- orthecreedence 3y ago> Also, none of the planets are in the habitable zone, so it's unlikely there's life on them. Why would somebody want to live on the arms of a clock??
- bitwize 3y agoTo high-five all the other monkeys round the outer edge of the face, of course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBIg7LEHs-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBIg7LEHs-0
- hit_to_key 3y agoOf all places, I did not expect to see a Rhythm Heaven reference on HN. :D Brings back memories
- bitwize 3y agoIt's not my first: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38927430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38927430
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- MagicMoonlight 3y agoIf something has been orbiting something else for billions of years I feel like they’d end up in some sort of pattern. We used to think shells and flowers must have been made by gods because they have patterns.
- layer8 3y agoAll six planets orbit in resonance, with ratios of 54:36:24:16:12:9, or three times 3:2 and two times 4:3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_110067#Planetary_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_110067#Planetary_system