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>"He's in a position most of us who have scrambled to find obscure documents in order to get a mortgage dream about: Telling a bunch of bankers to take it or le

>"He's in a position most of us who have scrambled to find obscure documents in order to get a mortgage dream about: Telling a bunch of bankers to take it or leave it." Um, banks are no different than your auto mechanic. They want and are competing for your business. You can always tell them take it or leave it. People seem to have this bizarre mentality that you have to go begging to your bank for money, which is hardly the case. Personal business like mortgages and chequing accounts, and for that matter things as large as an IPO, are hyper-competitive. There is a lot of room to shop around. What is it about banking that people find so intimidating and confusing?

revorad 14y ago
To put it mildly, there are more auto mechanics than banks.
ArekDymalski 14y ago
Exactly. Bankers aren't 'giving you money'. They're just providing simple service, for a fee.
joelrunyon 14y ago
I think the point was that unlike a lot of situations many Americans find themselves in, when going up against a bank, Zuckerberg has leverage - not a lot of people can say that these days (there are a lot more average people applying for mortgages than there are Facebooks applying for IPOs).
- excuse-me 14y ago
  Actually at the moment you are probably in a lot better position than the bank - you have money which you are prepared to lend them at a very low rate of interest. Similarly when you take out a mortgage - your interest is paying their salaries. It's a service industry and the bank manager is your servant. The only different these days is that you are probably in a much better financial state than the bank!
  - joelrunyon 14y ago
    They're only your servant if you actually take the loan. Up until then, it's still their money - and they get to do what they want with it. That's why it's hard to negotiate to start. Once they've given you the loan - it's a different story.
pbhjpbhj 14y ago
It sounds like you're rich? We tried to get a business mortgage - despite being able to show we've paid double the monthly repayment amount in business rent for 7 years no one will even give us a ludicrously bad offer nvm actually accept us as a customer. This seems like madness to me, add a 25% deposit and an insurance requirement and I think it's impossible for them to lose money on the deal even if we default and they sell off the building - indeed they probably make a pretty good profit that way. No bank needs my money. There are definitely some auto mechanics that do.
- joering2 14y ago
  > It sounds like you're rich? Not necessarily. He doesnt have to be rich, all he has to be is mediocre smart. Not apply for credit cards everywhere, burn wholes in his credit, drive recklessly, get in trouble with law, change job like gloves, etc; in other words: be a normal, decent citizen. Then his credit will keep building itself up, and yes every bank will be begging him to take the loan with them, knowing that at the end of the day the mortgage is bank's property until last penny is paid off, so there are limited ways he can "steal" it.
  - Aushin 14y ago
    I do not drive recklessly, get in trouble with the law, or change jobs like gloves. I am, by most accounts I would think, a normal, decent citizen. My credit is still pretty shot because I hurt my leg before I had health insurance or a job. Life isn't so easy to summarize. Bad things happen to good people (whether I am one or not is another question). Time and chance happeneth to them all, in short.
  - pbhjpbhj 14y ago
    I'm not normal but none of your claims for where we've gone wrong fit my situation. Both in business and privately we pay on time and have assets exceeding our credit. Ergo the only risk of lending to us for premises is that the mortgaged asset will fail to retain the value of the credit extended. At 25% deposit thats a serious piece of risk avoidance in anyone's books. What's left is that we can't provide a sufficient up side to get any of the banks out of bed. Near zero risk isn't good enough, they want bigger fish. Of course we'd need credit to grow ...
DanBC 14y ago
> What is it about banking that people find so intimidating and confusing? The days of being able to walk into a bank and say "Get the sherry out, I'm going to give you some business. I'd like a loan" are over.
kahawe 14y ago
> Um, banks are no different than your auto mechanic. They want and are competing for your business. You can always tell them take it or leave it. Allow me to generalize here but in the minds of the majority of average folks pretty much everywhere in the world, banks and bankers used to hold a certain status, an image of serious business and grave importance and a position of some sort of respect. Same goes for politicians. And I cannot tell you how many times such average folks would not believe me that banks loan out, let's say, 10 times as much as you are giving them and that's already conservative. It has only started to slowly change now after all the crises that people start to look down on banks and bankers but you have no idea how many banks over here are pulling the "that was them, not us, we are still serious business and reliable!!!" to win customers over and get away with it. The point I am trying to make is, most average folks really have no idea what a bank is doing exactly, how they work and how they are doing stuff you can definitely describe as playing with money; and they have no way of evaluating whether that friendly guy with the nice suit and tie and firm handshake is actually just an office drone, like most "bankers", who acts all important and serious, or if they really have anything to say - which most of the time they don't. So banks get away with holding up that "serious business" status with which they can shame you. And most people typically want something from a bank, at least they walked up to the bank, and aren't exactly the most mature and educated kind of customers to begin with, so they definitely do see banks as something different from their mechanic and they certainly won't slap their oh-so-trusted banker silly with demands but will suck it up and sign and feel like they came begging the whole time. And how ridiculous it would seem to them to suggest maybe bringing in a lawyer so your trusted bank doesn't rob you blind! And banks know exactly what they can get away with - the masses who have no leverage will certainly not get the humane and professional treatment of an exclusive private bank or a family office; they have no leverage, so they get treated like shit and beggars at their local SuperSeriousTrustworthyPlebeianBank because they hardly have an option or choice anyway. Go to PlebsBank instead, they will offer you practically the same deals in different wrapping and same shit treatment. And finally, most of us are brought up with respect for money and professional business settings, so banks, bankers and their suits definitely trigger and touch the right buttons on most people there and shame you into feeling bad since most money issues are pretty tough for the real 99%ers. IT guys are usually well off and could easily cut most of their monthly expenses since none of them are vital.

revorad 14y ago

To put it mildly, there are more auto mechanics than banks.

ArekDymalski 14y ago

Exactly. Bankers aren't 'giving you money'. They're just providing simple service, for a fee.

joelrunyon 14y ago

I think the point was that unlike a lot of situations many Americans find themselves in, when going up against a bank, Zuckerberg has leverage - not a lot of people can say that these days (there are a lot more average people applying for mortgages than there are Facebooks applying for IPOs).

excuse-me 14y ago
Actually at the moment you are probably in a lot better position than the bank - you have money which you are prepared to lend them at a very low rate of interest. Similarly when you take out a mortgage - your interest is paying their salaries. It's a service industry and the bank manager is your servant. The only different these days is that you are probably in a much better financial state than the bank!
- joelrunyon 14y ago
  They're only your servant if you actually take the loan. Up until then, it's still their money - and they get to do what they want with it. That's why it's hard to negotiate to start. Once they've given you the loan - it's a different story.

pbhjpbhj 14y ago

It sounds like you're rich? We tried to get a business mortgage - despite being able to show we've paid double the monthly repayment amount in business rent for 7 years no one will even give us a ludicrously bad offer nvm actually accept us as a customer. This seems like madness to me, add a 25% deposit and an insurance requirement and I think it's impossible for them to lose money on the deal even if we default and they sell off the building - indeed they probably make a pretty good profit that way. No bank needs my money. There are definitely some auto mechanics that do.

joering2 14y ago
> It sounds like you're rich? Not necessarily. He doesnt have to be rich, all he has to be is mediocre smart. Not apply for credit cards everywhere, burn wholes in his credit, drive recklessly, get in trouble with law, change job like gloves, etc; in other words: be a normal, decent citizen. Then his credit will keep building itself up, and yes every bank will be begging him to take the loan with them, knowing that at the end of the day the mortgage is bank's property until last penny is paid off, so there are limited ways he can "steal" it.
- Aushin 14y ago
  I do not drive recklessly, get in trouble with the law, or change jobs like gloves. I am, by most accounts I would think, a normal, decent citizen. My credit is still pretty shot because I hurt my leg before I had health insurance or a job. Life isn't so easy to summarize. Bad things happen to good people (whether I am one or not is another question). Time and chance happeneth to them all, in short.
- pbhjpbhj 14y ago
  I'm not normal but none of your claims for where we've gone wrong fit my situation. Both in business and privately we pay on time and have assets exceeding our credit. Ergo the only risk of lending to us for premises is that the mortgaged asset will fail to retain the value of the credit extended. At 25% deposit thats a serious piece of risk avoidance in anyone's books. What's left is that we can't provide a sufficient up side to get any of the banks out of bed. Near zero risk isn't good enough, they want bigger fish. Of course we'd need credit to grow ...

DanBC 14y ago

> What is it about banking that people find so intimidating and confusing? The days of being able to walk into a bank and say "Get the sherry out, I'm going to give you some business. I'd like a loan" are over.

kahawe 14y ago

> Um, banks are no different than your auto mechanic. They want and are competing for your business. You can always tell them take it or leave it. Allow me to generalize here but in the minds of the majority of average folks pretty much everywhere in the world, banks and bankers used to hold a certain status, an image of serious business and grave importance and a position of some sort of respect. Same goes for politicians. And I cannot tell you how many times such average folks would not believe me that banks loan out, let's say, 10 times as much as you are giving them and that's already conservative. It has only started to slowly change now after all the crises that people start to look down on banks and bankers but you have no idea how many banks over here are pulling the "that was them, not us, we are still serious business and reliable!!!" to win customers over and get away with it. The point I am trying to make is, most average folks really have no idea what a bank is doing exactly, how they work and how they are doing stuff you can definitely describe as playing with money; and they have no way of evaluating whether that friendly guy with the nice suit and tie and firm handshake is actually just an office drone, like most "bankers", who acts all important and serious, or if they really have anything to say - which most of the time they don't. So banks get away with holding up that "serious business" status with which they can shame you. And most people typically want something from a bank, at least they walked up to the bank, and aren't exactly the most mature and educated kind of customers to begin with, so they definitely do see banks as something different from their mechanic and they certainly won't slap their oh-so-trusted banker silly with demands but will suck it up and sign and feel like they came begging the whole time. And how ridiculous it would seem to them to suggest maybe bringing in a lawyer so your trusted bank doesn't rob you blind! And banks know exactly what they can get away with - the masses who have no leverage will certainly not get the humane and professional treatment of an exclusive private bank or a family office; they have no leverage, so they get treated like shit and beggars at their local SuperSeriousTrustworthyPlebeianBank because they hardly have an option or choice anyway. Go to PlebsBank instead, they will offer you practically the same deals in different wrapping and same shit treatment. And finally, most of us are brought up with respect for money and professional business settings, so banks, bankers and their suits definitely trigger and touch the right buttons on most people there and shame you into feeling bad since most money issues are pretty tough for the real 99%ers. IT guys are usually well off and could easily cut most of their monthly expenses since none of them are vital.