6 ms·
There’s obviously a limit to how much detail you can fit into a headline but just to be clear this is using pattern matching across various sensors to develop a
by mdhb 3y ago
There’s obviously a limit to how much detail you can fit into a headline but just to be clear this is using pattern matching across various sensors to develop a list of things matching a particular signature which is then sent to a human for review long before anyone even thinks about pulling and triggers.
If anyone is looking for a serious dive into this topic I’d highly recommend starting here https://youtu.be/1-0L5Wv86fQ https://youtu.be/1-0L5Wv86fQ?
- throwaway118899 3y agoNonsense. The core of an article can always fit in a headline. Journalists and their editors know what they’re doing. Alternative: “US military pulls the trigger, implements AI-assisted pattern matching for military target acquisition” I even kept their “pulls trigger” pun.
- sschueller 3y agoHow much less care will be taken by the human reviewers knowing that an AI picked the target? There is a bias there in the back of a mind and when you get into a stressful situation you are more likely to trust that the "system" didn't make a mistake. How many times have you pushed to production skipping the final review because all tests passed anyway only for it to fail?
- bandyaboot 3y agoIf I were reviewing AI written code that passes all tests vs reviewing human written code that passes all tests, I think I’d trust the human written code more.
- spywaregorilla 3y agoI knew a guy who was in charge of approving strikes in iraq. His job was assessing the second order impacts of a strike beyond whether or not it was targeting what they believed. I'm not saying iraq wasn't a shit show, but for what it's worth, this stuff is very carefully reviewed and is not done quickly.
- sschueller 3y agoYet the Unites States bombed a Médecins Sans Frontières hospital killing 42 by mistake according to their own non-independent investigation.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- spywaregorilla 3y agoThis is tragic but it's noteworthy because it is NOT the norm. Unlike, say, what's going on in Ukraine with frequent missile strikes into arbitrary civilian areas. This is a serious failure of controls that warranted direct attention and the apology of the president. imo this is moreso evidence that the US takes its controls seriously rather than frivolously.
- ein0p 3y agoBoth of those things are lies though. Per the British medical journal Lancet, approximately 600000 civilians were killed in Iraq. Per the UN estimates fewer than 11k civilians were killed so far in Ukraine.
- spywaregorilla 3y agoI don't really care enough to get into this, so I won't respond further but that study has largely been debunked. It uses both flawed methodology and appears to have outright fabricated data regarding death certificates. Further, it is grossly misleading to imply that the 600k killed were the result of reckless US military strikes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_cas...
- ein0p 3y agoWikipedia, really? Ok, let’s set that one aside for the moment. What are your thoughts on this here gem from the first Iraq war: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KP1OAD9jSaI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KP1OAD9jSaI Is that “humane” or “proportional”?
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago> How many times have you pushed to production skipping the final review because all tests passed anyway only for it to fail? Never. Because like the gate guard in "Zero Dark Thirty" I understand that process only works if you do it all the time.
- pytness 3y agoSure, but you wouldnt push to prod on a friday
- bamboozled 3y agoI do all the time, what’s your point ?
- pytness 3y agoYou dont push on fridays or before holidays. Good luck breaking prod and having you or your coworkers do extra hours on a holiday. edit: the point is you choose when to deploy, eg shoot.
- mc32 3y agoAnd your customers like it much less if prod breaks during their business hours.
- pytness 3y agoInsurance and banks services are used out of business hours by everyone. You better have people working after pushing to production a friday at 5pm. If it breaks on my work hours, np, i will revert the deployment. Good luck getting me to revert anything on a weekend.
- mc32 3y agoYeah different industries need different approaches. For services which serve North America, you’d preferably have a capable team in Australia, or similar, so you can push changes during their biz hours but our off hours.
- chii 3y ago> How much less care will be taken by the human reviewers knowing that an AI picked the target? it would depend on how the liability flows when the target is wrong. Will the AI cover the ass of the previous person who would've had to vet it? Or will the ultimate responsibility and therefore, liability, lay with a person?
- DrScientist 3y agoPersonal accountability? This is the US. For example the Captain USS Vincennes got promoted after he ordered the shooting down of a commercial airliner by mistake.
- singleshot_ 3y agoRogers was a Captain in the navy at the time of the incident. What rank was Captain Rogers promoted to after the incident?
- DrScientist 3y agoYou are right I meant the awarding of the Legion of Merit for his time as Captain of the Vincennes.
- singleshot_ 3y agoOh, wow. I had not known that. Interesting detail for sure!
- tromp 3y agoUse of A.I. should never give you Accountability Immunity...
- mdhb 3y agoThere’s really no parallel whatsoever between pushing code to production and a military operation like this. It’s a terrible analogy.
- svrtknst 3y agoThere are parallells to human complacency, and there have been military incidents due to it.
- acdha 3y agoI agree that it’s not a great analogy but would caution that some of the same concerns about complacency apply. If this tool produces some decent looking output, it’s not hard to imagine a mistake being okayed because it looked good similar to someone hitting “LGTM” on Friday afternoon because it’s been fine the last 500 times OR miss something else because they were assuming that the AI would flag the important areas. I know that people in the military are very familiar with problems like that so I think the main concern here is making sure that vendors don’t successfully oversell their products’ capabilities.
- robertlagrant 3y agoIt's not hard to imagine, but then the military already uses loads of automation that that applies to. I don't think this increases that risk.
- acdha 3y agoAt the very least, it would increase the risk by expanding usage. I think there’s an additional angle, however: the better an automated system like this gets, the more people assume it’ll always work. Tesla drivers get in FSD crashes they’d never get in with a basic cruise control because it’s good enough to handle enough road situations that they assume it can handle all of them, despite periodic fatal reminders that it isn’t.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
- nicklecompte 3y agoI don't know the technical details behind this software. But I strongly suspect this is firmly in the camp of "machine learning" rather than "AI." Big Tech's intentional confusion between those terms has caused an enormous amount of mischief over the last 10 years. If the military had said "statistical inference using modern Big Data methods" that would have the following advantages: - honesty - officers' expectations would be more tempered and reasonable - public outrage would be more tempered and reasonable Though to be fair this terminology would have the following disadvantages: - military tech grifters have their BS more easily called out - AI tech grifters have to look in the mirror and accept this is what their algorithm is - AI journalism grifters get less clicks - Hacker News conversations indulge less navel-gazing speculation about Skynet
- lesuorac 3y agoA thermostat would count as an AI to somebody from the 1800s. My general experience is that AI is just beyond what somebody understands and when they understand how it works they just use a more specific wording.
- whelp_24 3y agoMachine Learning is a type of ai. >If the military had said "statistical inference using modern Big Data methods" If this is what I saw the military use I would be upset at the blatant attempt at being misleading. In my mind I would convert it back to AI. It's equivalent to saying "I didn't drive drunk, I got here using carnot-like cycles after injesting social communication enhancing drugs".