6 ms·

Amazon lobbyists to be banned from European parliament

76 points by anigbrowl 3y ago

Simulacra 3y ago
I don't agree with this decision. As an American, I'm not quite sure of the rights of Europeans, but in America, we have the right to petition the government for redress - lobby, in short. It's part of our basic, fundamental rights. Amazon, yes even a corporation, should have the right to petition a governing body.
- defrost 3y ago
  It's a two way street: The move comes after Amazon’s repeated refusal to attend hearings in the European Parliament on working conditions in Amazon warehouses. If Facebook et al refused to front a US Government hearing then they also might face consequences.
  - Simulacra 3y ago
    You're right, they should face consequences, but not the lobbying. They still should have the right to address the government. If they are not showing up for hearings, and that is punishable, then you can punish them with fines. But to block them from, addressing the government entirely is abhorrent to me.
    - defrost 3y ago
      Seems straightforward enough. Front up, answer questions, regain access.
bluish29 3y ago
It would be more interesting to see a headline like that > Lobbyists to be banned from European parliament
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Lobbyists to be banned from European parliament This is a hand-out to the rich. Unless you plan on making individual carve-outs for every NGO and citizen group.
  - theturtletalks 3y ago
    Rushing to create laws due to outrage is the worst thing for small players. The big players will find the loopholes quickly and the smaller players in the sector feel the hurt of regulation.
  - hulitu 3y ago
    > Unless you plan on making individual carve-outs for every NGO and citizen group And who, do you think, finances those "NGO"s and "citizen group"s ?
- sputr 3y ago
  Lobbying is a core pillar of democracy. Yeah, I know, I dont like it either. But that's reality and no amount of prohibition will stop humans from being human. The solution is clear: everyone needs to lobby for their interests and the people should all fund (crowdsourcing) organizations that lobby for politics they want done. Transparency of lobbying, while benefitial is not a solution.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    Lobbying is allowing people and interest groups to make their views known directly to lawmakers. This is democracy and free society in action, indeed. As long as it is transparent there is nothing not to "like". That's why this ban in Amazon lobbyists is actually bad news but not surprising if you've been following how the EU has been evolving.
    - BillyTheMage 3y ago
      I fail to see how letting the rich influence politicians is good. How is "we put a bunch of money together, now listen to us" good for democracy?
uniformlyrandom 3y ago
Are they significantly worse than other big tech lobbyists? What did they do, murder somebody?
- powera 3y ago
  FTFA: "The move comes after Amazon’s repeated refusal to attend hearings in the European Parliament on working conditions in Amazon warehouses."
  - Kluggy 3y ago
    So they didn’t show up and their punishment is not being allowed to show up?
    - nneonneo 3y ago
      They shouldn’t be allowed to pick and choose what to show up for. If they don’t want to attend hearings, then they shouldn’t get to lobby (meet with) MEPs.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    Those hearings are only a show: Let's hit Amazon for our own political agrandisement. At one point Amazin is right to tell them to do one. If laws have been broken then that's the job of courts and employment tribunals.
    - orwin 3y ago
      No one watch EU auditions. At most I'll read a short resume. It also is way more impersonal than French senate's audition with clear rules to limit spectacular actions/speech from auditors.
burkaman 3y ago
This is just physically banning them from parliament buildings, which seems pointless. I don't think modern lobbyists work by literally waiting in the lobby anymore.
- nneonneo 3y ago
  The EU has some pretty strict rules around transparency in lobbying (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/at-your-service/en/transparency/lobby-groups https://www.europarl.europa.eu/at-your-service/en/transparen...). It sounds like meetings between MEPs and interest groups (lobbyists) need to be documented pretty thoroughly. I imagine it’s probably easier for MEPs to meet with lobbyists in the parliament as opposed to outside of it, or maybe there are even rules that discourage such outside lobbying. As the article notes, Amazon did meet with MEPs pretty frequently in the parliament buildings, suggesting that this ban will have some impact on their lobbying efforts.
  - 93po 3y ago
    Maybe the effect is they’ll now happen on private islands and use the ban as the excuse why
madrox 3y ago
I'm frequently surprised, given Amazon's size, how little of a non-US presence it has. It's in other countries, sure, but not in the same way as the US. Seeing things like this makes me wonder if Amazon doesn't know how to adapt to other markets.
- bsder 3y ago
  Amazon is just treating it like a cost of doing business. Until fines reach levels that actually impact the pay of the CEO, they will continue to be ignored.
- cjbgkagh 3y ago
  Lots of countries have freight forwarding services were you buy from the US Amazon site and have it forwarded to your country. This avoids the hasle to Amazon of dealing with the country directly. Florida has special zip codes with 0% sales tax with the understanding that such goods are going overseas. In my current country you can basically buy whatever you want from Amazon US cheaper and easier than you can locally.
- drubio 3y ago
  They're pretty good at it, just from yesterday. A $5 billion AWS investment in Mexico: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-aws-region-in-mexico-is-in-the-works/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-aws-region-in-mexico-is... Regional and national media are swallowing it up, yeah the country needs the investment, but at what price ? Gov still mum on what it took to 'land' the deal (tax/land break). I remembered the Amazon HQ2 hoopla from years back, that U.S state/local govs were turning over backwards to land it, offering a lot of incentives. And I just looked the yesterday, that deal (HQ2) is still on hold and it was for just as much ($5 billion).
- danielscrubs 3y ago
  Im quite confused on why it is popular in the first place. The ux is horrible, customer service is non existent, the speed of delivery is the same or slower as others and the price is the same as others.
nicetryguy 3y ago
Thank god the EU (and sometimes Cali) are finally standing up to these huge tech companies. The federal legislative and executive branches of BOTH parties don't seem to have that type of spine as the stagnant wages and purchasing power of millennials and gen z continues its death spiral.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  The EU is extending its interest and own power. Nothing to do with us the people, and in this case actually worrying.
  - piva00 3y ago
    Worrying in what sense?
    - mytailorisrich 3y ago
      As an EU citizen, it does not sit well with my idea of a free democratic society to ban an interest group from making representation just because they refuse to subject themselves to what are little more than "show trials" conducted for politicians' own benefits. The EU's institutions are on a wrong path, IMHO.
      - piva00 3y ago
        They wouldn't have been banned if they were present when required, right? What should be the rules then, they can pick and choose when they are present because it's convenient to them or should they be around when it's also not in their interests but in the interest of the EU? Almost every political action is for politicians' benefit, that's the whole incentive, it's unfortunate because I'd prefer a world where politicians just do the right thing but we can't have a political system that depends on the morality of everyone involved to do the right thing.
        mytailorisrich 3y ago
ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
I couldn't see this flying in the U.S without due process (targeting a specific entity always causes challenges) but I guess this flies in the EU? A law banning all lobbyists would be fine, but pick and choosing what lobbyists you allow just sounds like it could only lead to corruption.
- piva00 3y ago
  Amazon lobbyists would still be allowed if they followed their end of the deal: show up when it was required to attend regarding working conditions. They didn't so yes, it flies. In the US due process is also rife with corruption, a layered form where if you have enough money to pay a stellar legal team you'll find loopholes and appeals processes to massage your way through.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zer00eyz 3y ago
>>> Amazon is a frequent visitor to the EU Parliament. In January alone, it had nine meetings with MEPs, including a meeting just a day after the hearing. And what were the other 9? I hate when they say hand wave details. If they were to amazons benefit then state what they were. Otherwise it looks like you're tugging at facts. https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/policy/setting-the-record-straight-about-our-engagement-with-the-european-parliament https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/policy/setting-the-record-st... So thats both sides of the spin...
- arp242 3y ago
  That's not important; it's just to establish that Amazon lobbyists are active. The reason they were banned is because of their refusal to attend the hearings. That is: "either fully participate or don't participate at all – you can't pick and choose what's convenient for you". This is also what Amazon's reply addresses. I don't know if Amazon's claims that these meetings are "clearly one-sided and not designed to encourage constructive debate or objective scrutiny" are accurate.
  - zer00eyz 3y ago
    You should go read what they were meeting on. Cause you know some of that was about warehouses. Is amazon good? Fuck no. Is the EU parliament being protectionist... yes and not just of "people".
philoinvestor 3y ago
Amazon has bigger problems with China actively trying to attack its business model from all sides!
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] Some more discussion over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39527379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39527379
frank_bb 3y ago
[dead]

76 points by anigbrowl 3y ago

I don't agree with this decision. As an American, I'm not quite sure of the rights of Europeans, but in America, we have the right to petition the government for redress - lobby, in short. It's part of our basic, fundamental rights. Amazon, yes even a corporation, should have the right to petition a governing body.

defrost 3y ago
It's a two way street: The move comes after Amazon’s repeated refusal to attend hearings in the European Parliament on working conditions in Amazon warehouses. If Facebook et al refused to front a US Government hearing then they also might face consequences.
- Simulacra 3y ago
  You're right, they should face consequences, but not the lobbying. They still should have the right to address the government. If they are not showing up for hearings, and that is punishable, then you can punish them with fines. But to block them from, addressing the government entirely is abhorrent to me.
  - defrost 3y ago
    Seems straightforward enough. Front up, answer questions, regain access.

bluish29 3y ago

It would be more interesting to see a headline like that > Lobbyists to be banned from European parliament

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Lobbyists to be banned from European parliament This is a hand-out to the rich. Unless you plan on making individual carve-outs for every NGO and citizen group.
- theturtletalks 3y ago
  Rushing to create laws due to outrage is the worst thing for small players. The big players will find the loopholes quickly and the smaller players in the sector feel the hurt of regulation.
- hulitu 3y ago
  > Unless you plan on making individual carve-outs for every NGO and citizen group And who, do you think, finances those "NGO"s and "citizen group"s ?
sputr 3y ago
Lobbying is a core pillar of democracy. Yeah, I know, I dont like it either. But that's reality and no amount of prohibition will stop humans from being human. The solution is clear: everyone needs to lobby for their interests and the people should all fund (crowdsourcing) organizations that lobby for politics they want done. Transparency of lobbying, while benefitial is not a solution.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  Lobbying is allowing people and interest groups to make their views known directly to lawmakers. This is democracy and free society in action, indeed. As long as it is transparent there is nothing not to "like". That's why this ban in Amazon lobbyists is actually bad news but not surprising if you've been following how the EU has been evolving.
  - BillyTheMage 3y ago
    I fail to see how letting the rich influence politicians is good. How is "we put a bunch of money together, now listen to us" good for democracy?

uniformlyrandom 3y ago

Are they significantly worse than other big tech lobbyists? What did they do, murder somebody?

powera 3y ago
FTFA: "The move comes after Amazon’s repeated refusal to attend hearings in the European Parliament on working conditions in Amazon warehouses."
- Kluggy 3y ago
  So they didn’t show up and their punishment is not being allowed to show up?
  - nneonneo 3y ago
    They shouldn’t be allowed to pick and choose what to show up for. If they don’t want to attend hearings, then they shouldn’t get to lobby (meet with) MEPs.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  Those hearings are only a show: Let's hit Amazon for our own political agrandisement. At one point Amazin is right to tell them to do one. If laws have been broken then that's the job of courts and employment tribunals.
  - orwin 3y ago
    No one watch EU auditions. At most I'll read a short resume. It also is way more impersonal than French senate's audition with clear rules to limit spectacular actions/speech from auditors.

burkaman 3y ago

This is just physically banning them from parliament buildings, which seems pointless. I don't think modern lobbyists work by literally waiting in the lobby anymore.

nneonneo 3y ago
The EU has some pretty strict rules around transparency in lobbying (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/at-your-service/en/transparency/lobby-groups https://www.europarl.europa.eu/at-your-service/en/transparen...). It sounds like meetings between MEPs and interest groups (lobbyists) need to be documented pretty thoroughly. I imagine it’s probably easier for MEPs to meet with lobbyists in the parliament as opposed to outside of it, or maybe there are even rules that discourage such outside lobbying. As the article notes, Amazon did meet with MEPs pretty frequently in the parliament buildings, suggesting that this ban will have some impact on their lobbying efforts.
- 93po 3y ago
  Maybe the effect is they’ll now happen on private islands and use the ban as the excuse why

madrox 3y ago

I'm frequently surprised, given Amazon's size, how little of a non-US presence it has. It's in other countries, sure, but not in the same way as the US. Seeing things like this makes me wonder if Amazon doesn't know how to adapt to other markets.

bsder 3y ago
Amazon is just treating it like a cost of doing business. Until fines reach levels that actually impact the pay of the CEO, they will continue to be ignored.
cjbgkagh 3y ago
Lots of countries have freight forwarding services were you buy from the US Amazon site and have it forwarded to your country. This avoids the hasle to Amazon of dealing with the country directly. Florida has special zip codes with 0% sales tax with the understanding that such goods are going overseas. In my current country you can basically buy whatever you want from Amazon US cheaper and easier than you can locally.
drubio 3y ago
They're pretty good at it, just from yesterday. A $5 billion AWS investment in Mexico: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-aws-region-in-mexico-is-in-the-works/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-aws-region-in-mexico-is... Regional and national media are swallowing it up, yeah the country needs the investment, but at what price ? Gov still mum on what it took to 'land' the deal (tax/land break). I remembered the Amazon HQ2 hoopla from years back, that U.S state/local govs were turning over backwards to land it, offering a lot of incentives. And I just looked the yesterday, that deal (HQ2) is still on hold and it was for just as much ($5 billion).
danielscrubs 3y ago
Im quite confused on why it is popular in the first place. The ux is horrible, customer service is non existent, the speed of delivery is the same or slower as others and the price is the same as others.

nicetryguy 3y ago

Thank god the EU (and sometimes Cali) are finally standing up to these huge tech companies. The federal legislative and executive branches of BOTH parties don't seem to have that type of spine as the stagnant wages and purchasing power of millennials and gen z continues its death spiral.

mytailorisrich 3y ago
The EU is extending its interest and own power. Nothing to do with us the people, and in this case actually worrying.
- piva00 3y ago
  Worrying in what sense?
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    As an EU citizen, it does not sit well with my idea of a free democratic society to ban an interest group from making representation just because they refuse to subject themselves to what are little more than "show trials" conducted for politicians' own benefits. The EU's institutions are on a wrong path, IMHO.
    - piva00 3y ago
      They wouldn't have been banned if they were present when required, right? What should be the rules then, they can pick and choose when they are present because it's convenient to them or should they be around when it's also not in their interests but in the interest of the EU? Almost every political action is for politicians' benefit, that's the whole incentive, it's unfortunate because I'd prefer a world where politicians just do the right thing but we can't have a political system that depends on the morality of everyone involved to do the right thing.
      - mytailorisrich 3y ago

ApolloFortyNine 3y ago

I couldn't see this flying in the U.S without due process (targeting a specific entity always causes challenges) but I guess this flies in the EU? A law banning all lobbyists would be fine, but pick and choosing what lobbyists you allow just sounds like it could only lead to corruption.

piva00 3y ago
Amazon lobbyists would still be allowed if they followed their end of the deal: show up when it was required to attend regarding working conditions. They didn't so yes, it flies. In the US due process is also rife with corruption, a layered form where if you have enough money to pay a stellar legal team you'll find loopholes and appeals processes to massage your way through.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

zer00eyz 3y ago

>>> Amazon is a frequent visitor to the EU Parliament. In January alone, it had nine meetings with MEPs, including a meeting just a day after the hearing. And what were the other 9? I hate when they say hand wave details. If they were to amazons benefit then state what they were. Otherwise it looks like you're tugging at facts. https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/policy/setting-the-record-straight-about-our-engagement-with-the-european-parliament https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/policy/setting-the-record-st... So thats both sides of the spin...

arp242 3y ago
That's not important; it's just to establish that Amazon lobbyists are active. The reason they were banned is because of their refusal to attend the hearings. That is: "either fully participate or don't participate at all – you can't pick and choose what's convenient for you". This is also what Amazon's reply addresses. I don't know if Amazon's claims that these meetings are "clearly one-sided and not designed to encourage constructive debate or objective scrutiny" are accurate.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  You should go read what they were meeting on. Cause you know some of that was about warehouses. Is amazon good? Fuck no. Is the EU parliament being protectionist... yes and not just of "people".

philoinvestor 3y ago

Amazon has bigger problems with China actively trying to attack its business model from all sides!

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] Some more discussion over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39527379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39527379

frank_bb 3y ago

[dead]