4 ms·

Ask HN: Should we (devs) sue Google?

Google will now require a D-U-Ns number to list an app on the play store. This is only free for US organizations. Other countries may or may not have to pay a (sometimes large) amount to get their own number. This feels remarkably like some sort of discrimination. Apple at least allows looking up your own number completely for free, if and only if you are equivalent to a US LLC or corporation (other business structures aren't needed).

martinky24 3y ago
> Google will now require a D-U-Ns number to list an app on the play store This is simply not true [1]. Look under the section "Creating a developer account for personal use" -- No D-U-N-S number is required. Reading further on that page: > If you’re in one of the regions that Dun and Bradstreet does not support, then you can apply to our support team for an alternative way to verify your organization. So there ARE channels if you are unable to obtain the number. [1]: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/13628312?hl=en https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...
- withinboredom 3y ago
  > This is simply not true Here is the email I received that states otherwise: Your account verification deadline for developer account ** Your confirmed deadline: Dec 2, 2024 You'll be able to start account verification in Play Console on Oct 3, 2024, which is 60 days before your deadline. What you'll need to provide when you verify: - a D-U-N-S number for your organization If you don't have a D-U-N-S number, you can request one at no cost from Dun & Bradstreet. This process can take up to 30 days, so we recommend requesting a D-U-N-S number well in advance of account verification being available in Play Console. Learn more about requesting a D-U-N-S number - a contact phone number and email address for Google Play users to contact you - a contact phone number and email address for Google to contact you - an official document to verify your identity - an official document to verify your organization If you earn money on Google Play using Google Play billing, you'll also need to verify your merchant payment details. So, maybe they haven't updated their documentation yet or don't even realize that it is only free for us orgs?
bell-cot 3y ago
IANAL, but the vast majority of discrimination is quite legal.* So I really doubt that there's any good legal basis for a lawsuit. *Whether or not the PR Dept. wants to own up to it...that is a very different question.
- martinky24 3y ago
  Even before that point, it's a bit of a false premise to even label this as "discrimination"
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    Just comparing https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discrimination https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discrimination with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination - it's pretty obvious that the definition with the most emotional baggage is dominant in many people's minds. But it's perfectly correct to say that the NBA's player-selection process discriminates against short klutzes with poor stamina. (IANAL - ...not a linguist - but I recall there being a technical term for people interpreting words and phrases so as to maximize their own emotional reactions to the assumed meanings.)
stop50 3y ago
I checked it on their website and i can say at least for germany its also free.
eesmith 3y ago
> This is only free for US organizations. Where do you see that it costs money outside of the US? I went to "How to Get a D-U-N-S Number" at https://www.dnb.com/duns/get-a-duns.html https://www.dnb.com/duns/get-a-duns.html . I clicked on "I'm a Google Developer" taking me to https://www.dnb.com/duns/google-developers-duns-creation.html https://www.dnb.com/duns/google-developers-duns-creation.htm... . I pretended to be an English speaker in Switzerland, which took me to https://www.dnb.com/en-ch/products-services/dun-bradstreet/db-d-u-n-s-number.html https://www.dnb.com/en-ch/products-services/dun-bradstreet/d... . It says "Apply for your free D-U-N-S® number". I then went to "Factsheet D&B D-U-N-S®-Number" at https://www.dnb.com/content/dam/bisnode/international/pdf_docs/DACH_FS_D-U-N-S-Nr_EN.pdf https://www.dnb.com/content/dam/bisnode/international/pdf_do... which says "It is free for a company to obtain a D-U-N-S Number in the standard turnaround."
- withinboredom 3y ago
  Some of the countries that require going through a "worldwide partner": https://www.dnb.com/duns/google-developers-duns-creation.html https://www.dnb.com/duns/google-developers-duns-creation.htm...
  - eesmith 3y ago
    I didn't see where it costs anything. When I followed "Worldwide Network Partners / America Latina – Español" to https://es.cialdnb.com/duns-number#DUNS-tabela https://es.cialdnb.com/duns-number#DUNS-tabela I read at the bottom: "Haz clic aquí para solicitar un D-U-N-S Number gratuito en 30 días, si puede esperar."
    - withinboredom 3y ago
      Netherlands/Belgium cost at least 15 euros, there are others too but I don't remember the costs.
drpossum 3y ago
iirc There's some new requirements effective Jan 1 2024 in the US that entities that do business here have beneficiaries registered and I wouldn't be surprised if this is to enforce compliance. Some light reading https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/09/30/2022-21020/beneficial-ownership-information-reporting-requirements https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/09/30/2022-21...

martinky24 3y ago

> Google will now require a D-U-Ns number to list an app on the play store This is simply not true [1]. Look under the section "Creating a developer account for personal use" -- No D-U-N-S number is required. Reading further on that page: > If you’re in one of the regions that Dun and Bradstreet does not support, then you can apply to our support team for an alternative way to verify your organization. So there ARE channels if you are unable to obtain the number. [1]: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/13628312?hl=en https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...

withinboredom 3y ago
> This is simply not true Here is the email I received that states otherwise: Your account verification deadline for developer account ** Your confirmed deadline: Dec 2, 2024 You'll be able to start account verification in Play Console on Oct 3, 2024, which is 60 days before your deadline. What you'll need to provide when you verify: - a D-U-N-S number for your organization If you don't have a D-U-N-S number, you can request one at no cost from Dun & Bradstreet. This process can take up to 30 days, so we recommend requesting a D-U-N-S number well in advance of account verification being available in Play Console. Learn more about requesting a D-U-N-S number - a contact phone number and email address for Google Play users to contact you - a contact phone number and email address for Google to contact you - an official document to verify your identity - an official document to verify your organization If you earn money on Google Play using Google Play billing, you'll also need to verify your merchant payment details. So, maybe they haven't updated their documentation yet or don't even realize that it is only free for us orgs?

bell-cot 3y ago

IANAL, but the vast majority of discrimination is quite legal.* So I really doubt that there's any good legal basis for a lawsuit. *Whether or not the PR Dept. wants to own up to it...that is a very different question.

martinky24 3y ago
Even before that point, it's a bit of a false premise to even label this as "discrimination"
- bell-cot 3y ago
  Just comparing https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discrimination https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/discrimination with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination - it's pretty obvious that the definition with the most emotional baggage is dominant in many people's minds. But it's perfectly correct to say that the NBA's player-selection process discriminates against short klutzes with poor stamina. (IANAL - ...not a linguist - but I recall there being a technical term for people interpreting words and phrases so as to maximize their own emotional reactions to the assumed meanings.)

stop50 3y ago

I checked it on their website and i can say at least for germany its also free.

eesmith 3y ago

> This is only free for US organizations. Where do you see that it costs money outside of the US? I went to "How to Get a D-U-N-S Number" at https://www.dnb.com/duns/get-a-duns.html https://www.dnb.com/duns/get-a-duns.html . I clicked on "I'm a Google Developer" taking me to https://www.dnb.com/duns/google-developers-duns-creation.html https://www.dnb.com/duns/google-developers-duns-creation.htm... . I pretended to be an English speaker in Switzerland, which took me to https://www.dnb.com/en-ch/products-services/dun-bradstreet/db-d-u-n-s-number.html https://www.dnb.com/en-ch/products-services/dun-bradstreet/d... . It says "Apply for your free D-U-N-S® number". I then went to "Factsheet D&B D-U-N-S®-Number" at https://www.dnb.com/content/dam/bisnode/international/pdf_docs/DACH_FS_D-U-N-S-Nr_EN.pdf https://www.dnb.com/content/dam/bisnode/international/pdf_do... which says "It is free for a company to obtain a D-U-N-S Number in the standard turnaround."

withinboredom 3y ago
Some of the countries that require going through a "worldwide partner": https://www.dnb.com/duns/google-developers-duns-creation.html https://www.dnb.com/duns/google-developers-duns-creation.htm...
- eesmith 3y ago
  I didn't see where it costs anything. When I followed "Worldwide Network Partners / America Latina – Español" to https://es.cialdnb.com/duns-number#DUNS-tabela https://es.cialdnb.com/duns-number#DUNS-tabela I read at the bottom: "Haz clic aquí para solicitar un D-U-N-S Number gratuito en 30 días, si puede esperar."
  - withinboredom 3y ago
    Netherlands/Belgium cost at least 15 euros, there are others too but I don't remember the costs.

drpossum 3y ago

iirc There's some new requirements effective Jan 1 2024 in the US that entities that do business here have beneficiaries registered and I wouldn't be surprised if this is to enforce compliance. Some light reading https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/09/30/2022-21020/beneficial-ownership-information-reporting-requirements https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/09/30/2022-21...