4 ms·

It's a good thing fear of racism and anti-racist signalling is strong. Sometimes it comes across is as naive and whinging though. Is the wish for South Koreans

It's a good thing fear of racism and anti-racist signalling is strong. Sometimes it comes across is as naive and whinging though. Is the wish for South Koreans to reproduce the people in their high-functioning society racist? Do we really think the hereditary composition of said society has nothing to do with how highly-functional it is? I think we can see the reality of these things in a sober way, and still maintain our human dignity - even if we aren't South Korean.

api 3y ago
> Do we really think the hereditary composition of said society has nothing to do with how highly-functional it is? https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/s3fs-public/imported/KoreanPeninsula_Night_18Jan2021_VIIRS_lg.jpeg https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/s3fs-public/imported/KoreanPe... That's North and South Korea from space. Those people are almost genetically identical. They're practically clones. Why is the South so much stronger economically and technologically? Could it have to do with different ideas? The North is a mixture of a monarchist family cult of personality and Marxism, while the South is closer to a Western liberal democracy. I'm sure you can find other cases of ethnically identical people have massively different outcomes, but this is probably the most obvious. You can see it from space. These are a problem for people who want to discount the importance of ideas and culture in favor of genetic determinism. If genes are the most important thing, North and South Korea should not have such a large gap in outcome. It's a lot easier to think of examples of over time. Europe went from being backward and poor compared to the Middle East and China to basically ruling the world in a few generations. That's too fast to explain with genetics. There are loads more examples like this: Japan's sudden industrialization, the rise of China in the last 50 years, etc. In all these cases you had people suddenly leaping forward in development without much genetic change. Why weren't they always so developed if it's genetic? I'm not arguing that genes have zero impact, but I think ideas are much more significant. Humans are thinking beings. Most of our efficacy comes from things that are not heritable. Genes only give you the base raw material.
- cupcakecommons 3y ago
  I am not discounting ideas or culture at all. I chose my terms wisely and never once mentioned genes. Culture is heritable and is very difficult to completely isolate from many other heritable or semi-heritable factors. Is cultural inheritance as straightforward a process as genetic inheritance? Absolutely not - but culture is certainly heritable. Take populations with barely functional societies and introduce Marxist cults of personality and you don't get North Korea. North Korea is a rarity in this sense. How long did it take many other pseudo-Marxist states to fall apart? Many of these states destroyed themselves so quickly they were essentially lost to history. Again, nothing to do with genetic determinism or cultural determinism - we're just noticing reality here. Humans deserve dignity and nothing I am saying is aimed towards undermining that.

api 3y ago

> Do we really think the hereditary composition of said society has nothing to do with how highly-functional it is? https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/s3fs-public/imported/KoreanPeninsula_Night_18Jan2021_VIIRS_lg.jpeg https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/s3fs-public/imported/KoreanPe... That's North and South Korea from space. Those people are almost genetically identical. They're practically clones. Why is the South so much stronger economically and technologically? Could it have to do with different ideas? The North is a mixture of a monarchist family cult of personality and Marxism, while the South is closer to a Western liberal democracy. I'm sure you can find other cases of ethnically identical people have massively different outcomes, but this is probably the most obvious. You can see it from space. These are a problem for people who want to discount the importance of ideas and culture in favor of genetic determinism. If genes are the most important thing, North and South Korea should not have such a large gap in outcome. It's a lot easier to think of examples of over time. Europe went from being backward and poor compared to the Middle East and China to basically ruling the world in a few generations. That's too fast to explain with genetics. There are loads more examples like this: Japan's sudden industrialization, the rise of China in the last 50 years, etc. In all these cases you had people suddenly leaping forward in development without much genetic change. Why weren't they always so developed if it's genetic? I'm not arguing that genes have zero impact, but I think ideas are much more significant. Humans are thinking beings. Most of our efficacy comes from things that are not heritable. Genes only give you the base raw material.

cupcakecommons 3y ago
I am not discounting ideas or culture at all. I chose my terms wisely and never once mentioned genes. Culture is heritable and is very difficult to completely isolate from many other heritable or semi-heritable factors. Is cultural inheritance as straightforward a process as genetic inheritance? Absolutely not - but culture is certainly heritable. Take populations with barely functional societies and introduce Marxist cults of personality and you don't get North Korea. North Korea is a rarity in this sense. How long did it take many other pseudo-Marxist states to fall apart? Many of these states destroyed themselves so quickly they were essentially lost to history. Again, nothing to do with genetic determinism or cultural determinism - we're just noticing reality here. Humans deserve dignity and nothing I am saying is aimed towards undermining that.