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This is the form that miners allege will cause them irreparable injury and has cost them 40 hours to fill out: https://www.eia.gov/survey/form/eia_862/form.pdf

This is the form that miners allege will cause them irreparable injury and has cost them 40 hours to fill out: https://www.eia.gov/survey/form/eia_862/form.pdf https://www.eia.gov/survey/form/eia_862/form.pdf

Canada 3y ago
It's big and extremely invasive, and asks questions that are none of the government's business, and definitely none of that agency's business. The form claims it should only take 30 minutes to complete. Laughable. It's 26 pages, and it's not simple, and it begins with a threat that being incorrect is a criminal offense.
- bitfilped 3y ago
  The stability and security of energy generation in the US is in fact the DOE's business.
  - roamerz 3y ago
    If I opened a laundromat I doubt I’d need to fill out something for the DOE. I think this is nothing more than another agency using the DOE for a conduit to get that information for them.
    - pasc1878 3y ago
      A laundromat does not affect how much generation you need - crypto facilities can and have.
    - singleshot_ 3y ago
      If thousands of people cooperate to create a global money laundering operation that directly affects the power grid it makes sense to request some information from them.
      - alchemist1e9 3y ago
        Bugger off. Bitcoin is coming no matter what you think and eventually it will smack some responsibility into the irresponsible governments that are actually the biggest polluters and encouraging waste and consumption though endless fiat money printing and civilization scale money laundering.
        singleshot_ 3y ago
        Lovely language. Bitcoin isn’t “coming,” it’s here and it’s a nightmare. People lose money down this drain every day and there’s next to no way to get it back. A serious transnational criminal problem that must be addressed and if the government wants to keep tabs on who profits from this, that’s be great.
        alchemist1e9 3y ago
        Your assumptions couldn’t be more misguided. It’s glaringly obvious you’re part of the collectivist, statist, authoritarian crowd, like so many out there. But here’s the kicker: Bitcoin, with its Proof of Work (PoW) marvel, is cutting through the tyranny of your majority like a hot knife through butter. Bitcoin is already outperforming the sluggish efforts of the IMF and World Bank, breathing life into renewable energy projects in the most forgotten corners of the world. This is revolutionizing local economies and lifting standards of living, far from your narrow, outdated critiques. Now, let’s dissect the energy “problem.” Yes Bitcoin will eventually devour 1-2% of the planet’s energy, but calling it a problem is missing the point. This consumption is a beacon, signaling the dire need for more energy production. Bitcoin isn’t just sitting there; it’s actively pushing for energy innovation and sustainability, something your limited perspective fails to grasp. And who made you the arbiter of good versus bad energy use? Do cloud services, AI, gaming, and your mundane household activities get a free pass? The real issue is your lack of vision, stuck in a defeatist echo chamber. Bitcoin is addressing the massive demand for a currency that’s private, uncensored, and deflationary. You might not like it, but it’s because you’re too caught up playing traffic cop, basking in telling others what to do. You also overlook the ingenious utilization of Bitcoin’s ‘waste’ heat, a byproduct turned asset. This isn’t merely about keeping some servers running; it’s about a visionary leap towards using every joule of energy to its fullest. Bitcoin mining operations are pioneering the capture and repurposing of waste heat for practical, everyday uses - from water heaters in homes to boosting agricultural yields. Imagine a world where the excess heat from securing a decentralized financial network warms homes, powers greenhouses, and promotes sustainability. This isn’t a hypothetical future; it’s happening now. And as for the global energy supply, your argument falls short by ignoring the pressing necessity for a dramatic increase in energy production. To genuinely elevate the living standards of every human being on this planet out of poverty, we require energy solutions that are orders of magnitude greater than what’s currently available. Bitcoin’s energy consumption, far from being a wasteful curse, is a catalyst for this much-needed energy revolution, driving innovation and investment in renewable sources at a scale previously unimaginable. As for the financial drain, let’s get real. Over any 5-year span, Bitcoin has been a golden ticket compared to the sinking ship of fiat currency, plagued by inflation and collapse. Bitcoin is on track to eclipse Silver and even challenge Gold as a store of value. And all the supposed “problems”? Solved. Layer 2 solutions, altcoins, and stablecoins are gearing up to handle global transaction volumes, with Bitcoin as the unshakeable foundation. Your darling governments and their policies? More often than not, they’re the real hurdles to progress, wielding violence and spreading misery under the guise of collectivist and socialist dreams. And let’s not even start on the education system, brainwashing generations with fairytales instead of truth. Money laundering? Look in the mirror. The biggest laundromats are your central banks and government policies, sanctifying grand-scale financial crimes under the guise of legality. Bitcoin is the least of your worries if you’re genuinely concerned about corruption and illicit finance. You’re right, Bitcoin isn’t just coming; it’s already here, tearing down the facades of the leeches, parasites, and warmongers. With leaders who get it inching closer to power, we’re on the brink of a financial renaissance. Picture it: a Swiss bank account in every pocket, the ultimate nightmare for the likes of Obama and his collectivist cronies. And guess what? There’s nothing you can do to stop it.
    - bitfilped 3y ago
      No you wouldn't, because your laundromat wouldn't be consuming MW-GW ranges of power.
  - Canada 3y ago
    Then why is the first question fishing for info about what proof of stake validators are present? Why would they need to know the ages of the equipment? This is very obviously not about what they claim it is about.
- Johnny555 3y ago
  It's so long because it has a space for up to 10 crypto facilities, with 2 pages per facility. So basically 10 questions that need to be answered for a company that has a single crypto facility. And since power is such a large part of costs, I'd be surprised if most don't already know the answers to the power questions.
justrealist 3y ago
Filling out any form for the federal government is actually a big deal, because you incur huge legal liability by being wrong (criminal, if they decide you were lying). Submitting regulatory documents goes through a lot of legal review for a reason, you can't just "spitball" the numbers.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  Baloney. Any government form I've filled out gives that vibe, sure. And then when you're wrong, you don't get a fucking prison sentence, you get a phone call where someone explains why they think you're wrong and asks you to take a stab at it. Also, every form from the Government I've ever filled out that is binding in terms of accuracy goes out of it's way, where you sign (which this one, to my looking, I don't even see where you sign!) to say that "you certify that this information is accurate and correct to the best of your knowledge which like, the deniability there is a mile fucking wide. I, personally, as a citizen of both the United States and the larger world would very much like to know how much energy is being pissed away on crypto nonsense. I don't care if that's hard for you, if you can't be arsed to fill out a form, then shut down your stupid mining rigs. Edit: For an example of this: I straight up forgot to include a large gift from a family member in my taxes one year. I never once saw a cop, was threatened, or anything else: I got two letters, one from the IRS, and one from the state, detailing that they found I had forgotten it during an audit, and I owed them.... IIRC it was a G and a half, thereabouts. If I disagreed and wanted to question their findings, I had to reply with the requisite documentation and a signed statement explaining why I felt what I did. If not, I could accept the judgement, and they included the paperwork to setup a payment plan if I couldn't afford it right away. This "big government so scary" shit just is not reality. Every government institution I've dealt with (apart from the police, of course) approaches everyone in good faith, arguably even when they shouldn't. The ONLY way you can really get the G-men on your ass is if you're purposely going out of your way and doing fraudulent or illegal shit. Like the IRS doesn't even give a damn if you sell drugs, they just demand Uncle Sam gets his cut.
  - yownie 3y ago
    sure just as long as you shut down your dumb video games and movie distribution network.
NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
Trust me, if that form came into the place where I work, 40 hours would be the tip of the iceberg. No novel regulatory request would get a response without compliance and legal review and interpretation. In any case, this isn't a decision on the merits. It's just saying that the plaintiff has a reasonable chance of succeeding at trial; the "irreparable harm" occurs when the government forces you to incur unrecoverable compliance costs for something that isn't legally required - that's just the law. The government could've avoided this by going through the actual hoops necessitated by the Paperwork Reduction Act, notice and comment etc. rather than creating the requirement as an "emergency".
reaperman 3y ago
It's also a terrible form. It boils down to just 2 important questions: * Mining Electric Load: (in MW) * Mining Hash Rate: (in TH/s) But it doesn't have a place to specify which cryptocurrency is being mined. Each have a very different hash rate on the same hardware. So this "emergency" data will be useless even if they do collect it.
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  This is also the fundamental unit of business performance that everyone would hate to leak. I'm sure it'll be in great hands with USG regulators!

Canada 3y ago

It's big and extremely invasive, and asks questions that are none of the government's business, and definitely none of that agency's business. The form claims it should only take 30 minutes to complete. Laughable. It's 26 pages, and it's not simple, and it begins with a threat that being incorrect is a criminal offense.

bitfilped 3y ago
The stability and security of energy generation in the US is in fact the DOE's business.
- roamerz 3y ago
  If I opened a laundromat I doubt I’d need to fill out something for the DOE. I think this is nothing more than another agency using the DOE for a conduit to get that information for them.
  - pasc1878 3y ago
    A laundromat does not affect how much generation you need - crypto facilities can and have.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    If thousands of people cooperate to create a global money laundering operation that directly affects the power grid it makes sense to request some information from them.
    - alchemist1e9 3y ago
      Bugger off. Bitcoin is coming no matter what you think and eventually it will smack some responsibility into the irresponsible governments that are actually the biggest polluters and encouraging waste and consumption though endless fiat money printing and civilization scale money laundering.
      - singleshot_ 3y ago
        Lovely language. Bitcoin isn’t “coming,” it’s here and it’s a nightmare. People lose money down this drain every day and there’s next to no way to get it back. A serious transnational criminal problem that must be addressed and if the government wants to keep tabs on who profits from this, that’s be great.
        alchemist1e9 3y ago
        Your assumptions couldn’t be more misguided. It’s glaringly obvious you’re part of the collectivist, statist, authoritarian crowd, like so many out there. But here’s the kicker: Bitcoin, with its Proof of Work (PoW) marvel, is cutting through the tyranny of your majority like a hot knife through butter. Bitcoin is already outperforming the sluggish efforts of the IMF and World Bank, breathing life into renewable energy projects in the most forgotten corners of the world. This is revolutionizing local economies and lifting standards of living, far from your narrow, outdated critiques. Now, let’s dissect the energy “problem.” Yes Bitcoin will eventually devour 1-2% of the planet’s energy, but calling it a problem is missing the point. This consumption is a beacon, signaling the dire need for more energy production. Bitcoin isn’t just sitting there; it’s actively pushing for energy innovation and sustainability, something your limited perspective fails to grasp. And who made you the arbiter of good versus bad energy use? Do cloud services, AI, gaming, and your mundane household activities get a free pass? The real issue is your lack of vision, stuck in a defeatist echo chamber. Bitcoin is addressing the massive demand for a currency that’s private, uncensored, and deflationary. You might not like it, but it’s because you’re too caught up playing traffic cop, basking in telling others what to do. You also overlook the ingenious utilization of Bitcoin’s ‘waste’ heat, a byproduct turned asset. This isn’t merely about keeping some servers running; it’s about a visionary leap towards using every joule of energy to its fullest. Bitcoin mining operations are pioneering the capture and repurposing of waste heat for practical, everyday uses - from water heaters in homes to boosting agricultural yields. Imagine a world where the excess heat from securing a decentralized financial network warms homes, powers greenhouses, and promotes sustainability. This isn’t a hypothetical future; it’s happening now. And as for the global energy supply, your argument falls short by ignoring the pressing necessity for a dramatic increase in energy production. To genuinely elevate the living standards of every human being on this planet out of poverty, we require energy solutions that are orders of magnitude greater than what’s currently available. Bitcoin’s energy consumption, far from being a wasteful curse, is a catalyst for this much-needed energy revolution, driving innovation and investment in renewable sources at a scale previously unimaginable. As for the financial drain, let’s get real. Over any 5-year span, Bitcoin has been a golden ticket compared to the sinking ship of fiat currency, plagued by inflation and collapse. Bitcoin is on track to eclipse Silver and even challenge Gold as a store of value. And all the supposed “problems”? Solved. Layer 2 solutions, altcoins, and stablecoins are gearing up to handle global transaction volumes, with Bitcoin as the unshakeable foundation. Your darling governments and their policies? More often than not, they’re the real hurdles to progress, wielding violence and spreading misery under the guise of collectivist and socialist dreams. And let’s not even start on the education system, brainwashing generations with fairytales instead of truth. Money laundering? Look in the mirror. The biggest laundromats are your central banks and government policies, sanctifying grand-scale financial crimes under the guise of legality. Bitcoin is the least of your worries if you’re genuinely concerned about corruption and illicit finance. You’re right, Bitcoin isn’t just coming; it’s already here, tearing down the facades of the leeches, parasites, and warmongers. With leaders who get it inching closer to power, we’re on the brink of a financial renaissance. Picture it: a Swiss bank account in every pocket, the ultimate nightmare for the likes of Obama and his collectivist cronies. And guess what? There’s nothing you can do to stop it.
  - bitfilped 3y ago
    No you wouldn't, because your laundromat wouldn't be consuming MW-GW ranges of power.
- Canada 3y ago
  Then why is the first question fishing for info about what proof of stake validators are present? Why would they need to know the ages of the equipment? This is very obviously not about what they claim it is about.
Johnny555 3y ago
It's so long because it has a space for up to 10 crypto facilities, with 2 pages per facility. So basically 10 questions that need to be answered for a company that has a single crypto facility. And since power is such a large part of costs, I'd be surprised if most don't already know the answers to the power questions.

justrealist 3y ago

Filling out any form for the federal government is actually a big deal, because you incur huge legal liability by being wrong (criminal, if they decide you were lying). Submitting regulatory documents goes through a lot of legal review for a reason, you can't just "spitball" the numbers.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
Baloney. Any government form I've filled out gives that vibe, sure. And then when you're wrong, you don't get a fucking prison sentence, you get a phone call where someone explains why they think you're wrong and asks you to take a stab at it. Also, every form from the Government I've ever filled out that is binding in terms of accuracy goes out of it's way, where you sign (which this one, to my looking, I don't even see where you sign!) to say that "you certify that this information is accurate and correct to the best of your knowledge which like, the deniability there is a mile fucking wide. I, personally, as a citizen of both the United States and the larger world would very much like to know how much energy is being pissed away on crypto nonsense. I don't care if that's hard for you, if you can't be arsed to fill out a form, then shut down your stupid mining rigs. Edit: For an example of this: I straight up forgot to include a large gift from a family member in my taxes one year. I never once saw a cop, was threatened, or anything else: I got two letters, one from the IRS, and one from the state, detailing that they found I had forgotten it during an audit, and I owed them.... IIRC it was a G and a half, thereabouts. If I disagreed and wanted to question their findings, I had to reply with the requisite documentation and a signed statement explaining why I felt what I did. If not, I could accept the judgement, and they included the paperwork to setup a payment plan if I couldn't afford it right away. This "big government so scary" shit just is not reality. Every government institution I've dealt with (apart from the police, of course) approaches everyone in good faith, arguably even when they shouldn't. The ONLY way you can really get the G-men on your ass is if you're purposely going out of your way and doing fraudulent or illegal shit. Like the IRS doesn't even give a damn if you sell drugs, they just demand Uncle Sam gets his cut.
- yownie 3y ago
  sure just as long as you shut down your dumb video games and movie distribution network.

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago

Trust me, if that form came into the place where I work, 40 hours would be the tip of the iceberg. No novel regulatory request would get a response without compliance and legal review and interpretation. In any case, this isn't a decision on the merits. It's just saying that the plaintiff has a reasonable chance of succeeding at trial; the "irreparable harm" occurs when the government forces you to incur unrecoverable compliance costs for something that isn't legally required - that's just the law. The government could've avoided this by going through the actual hoops necessitated by the Paperwork Reduction Act, notice and comment etc. rather than creating the requirement as an "emergency".

reaperman 3y ago

It's also a terrible form. It boils down to just 2 important questions: * Mining Electric Load: (in MW) * Mining Hash Rate: (in TH/s) But it doesn't have a place to specify which cryptocurrency is being mined. Each have a very different hash rate on the same hardware. So this "emergency" data will be useless even if they do collect it.

rokkitmensch 3y ago
This is also the fundamental unit of business performance that everyone would hate to leak. I'm sure it'll be in great hands with USG regulators!