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It hurts and annoys me to no end that web developers don't take a stronger stand against Apple for its ridiculous policies against allowing browsers. To me, the

by revorad 14y ago

It hurts and annoys me to no end that web developers don't take a stronger stand against Apple for its ridiculous policies against allowing browsers. To me, the browser is the single most important piece of software on any computer. People love to talk about how iOS native apps totally win over web apps. But do they stop to think why that is the case? Because, the one native app - a better browser - that could change the situation is not allowed on iOS. Firefox and Chrome pushed the boundaries a lot when they first appeared on the desktop scene. But now they've become too caught up in standards compliance to actually do radically innovative things (except B2G, I'll admit). I'm betting on a new kickass browser on Android to either force Apple and Microsoft to open up, or make them irrelevant.

DrJokepu 14y ago
But browsers are are allowed in the App Store. Indeed, you can download Opera for the iPhone or the iPad from the App Store for free. There used to be a ban on apps in the App Store that share the functionality of the inbuilt apps but this hasn't been the case for quite a while now.
- rys 14y ago
  However you can't supplant Safari as the default app you, and as such the app in which other apps without any knowledge of the rest of the system, can send links to. Granted it's possible with custom URL schemes, but that means apps wishing to open URLs in external browsers need to know about those external browsers up front. You can't ask the system for a list of apps that handle URLs, and choose one.
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    You are aware that Mobile Safari (on iPad, I mean) is possibly the best mobile browser by far? All other browsers (I've tried tons) are much much worse. I'm not saying I like how my iPad doesn't provide a way to change default browser or email client (I'd use Sparrow on my iPhone if that was the case). I think it's a huge downside. I'm just saying that at least in the case of Mobile Safari, the un-changeable default is much much better than the alternatives and no harm has been done yet. I really wish they change this policy in iOS 6, though.
    - sebbi 14y ago
      Aren't "all other browsers" on Ipads just apps that use a webview e.g. just a wrapper for Safari? Except Opera maybe.
    - sirclueless 14y ago
      You realize that none of the alternatives are processing JavaScript? Of course the browser that runs JavaScript natively on the device is significantly better than all the gimpy alternatives, that's no surprise.
- revorad 14y ago
  Do you know why Chrome and Firefox are not on iOS? Because Apple only allows Safari Webkit. V8, Gecko or any other rendering or JS engines are not allowed. Opera Mini is based on Webkit and does any custom processing in the cloud, which is far from ideal for users. Why doesn't Apple allow third-party browsers? Because they might soil the oh-so-beautiful garden of apps that Apple is carefully curating. Imported roses are strictly prohibited, because - gasp - the thorns might prick the little soft fingers of these lovely obedient children. Trillion dollar cash piles don't come about by playing nice with competitors.
  - robin_reala 14y ago
    Not entirely true. Opera has its own rendering and JS engines (nothing to do with Webkit). Opera Mobile (which has both client-side) is banned from the app store, but Opera Mini (which does the JS server-side, and renders a compressed format delivered by the server on the client) is OK.
    - revorad 14y ago
      Yes, we're talking about mobile here. I thought that was obvious, but still made it clear when I said iOS, not OS X.
      - Tloewald 14y ago
        Go to iPhone app store. Search for Opera.
  - RandallBrown 14y ago
    Opera Mini on iOS does all of it's rendering in the cloud and passes compressed images to the phone. I'm pretty sure they use their own rendering engine, not WebKit.
ralfd 14y ago
But Apple also thinks the browser is the single most important piece of software on iOS. Because of that, they don't want to be dependent on a third party. They want to have their own optimized webkit engine used, so the users have the best experience. And it worked at least for the last 5 years, I greatly preferred Safari or iCab on iOS to the Android browsers.
- revorad 14y ago
  If you don't have any real options other than IE, you cannot imagine a Firefox is possible. Microsoft : IE :: Apple : Safari
  - Tloewald 14y ago
    Except Safari is built on an open source core that powers Chrome, AIR, Silk, etc.
    - khuey 14y ago
      There are parts of the Safari that ships on iOS that are not open source (e.g. the bits that implement text-size-adjust).
  - ralfd 14y ago
    The triumvirat of the future Web: Microsoft : IE :: Apple : Safari :: Google : Chrome It will be a hard place for Firefox and Opera. I read the blog post again, and I understand it so, that Mozilla can make a Windows 8 RT (ARM) version of Firefox, but only in a sandboxed version (no plugins/extensions?) and without access to the classic environment. So Microsoft is more lenient than Apple, but the result is perhaps the same, that it will be too tough to compete with the built in IE browser and its privileged features.
    - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
      Mozilla can't make web applications run fast because they aren't allowed to JIT JavaScript code. That is by far the most important thing (and it's true on both iOS and Windows RT).
ezequiel-garzon 14y ago
What is B2G?
- Zirro 14y ago
  Boot2Gecko: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/hands-on-with-boot2gecko-the-mobile-os-built-entirely-on-web-standards http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/hands-on-with-boot2ge...
  - ezequiel-garzon 14y ago
    Thanks!

by revorad 14y ago

DrJokepu 14y ago

But browsers are are allowed in the App Store. Indeed, you can download Opera for the iPhone or the iPad from the App Store for free. There used to be a ban on apps in the App Store that share the functionality of the inbuilt apps but this hasn't been the case for quite a while now.

rys 14y ago
However you can't supplant Safari as the default app you, and as such the app in which other apps without any knowledge of the rest of the system, can send links to. Granted it's possible with custom URL schemes, but that means apps wishing to open URLs in external browsers need to know about those external browsers up front. You can't ask the system for a list of apps that handle URLs, and choose one.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  You are aware that Mobile Safari (on iPad, I mean) is possibly the best mobile browser by far? All other browsers (I've tried tons) are much much worse. I'm not saying I like how my iPad doesn't provide a way to change default browser or email client (I'd use Sparrow on my iPhone if that was the case). I think it's a huge downside. I'm just saying that at least in the case of Mobile Safari, the un-changeable default is much much better than the alternatives and no harm has been done yet. I really wish they change this policy in iOS 6, though.
  - sebbi 14y ago
    Aren't "all other browsers" on Ipads just apps that use a webview e.g. just a wrapper for Safari? Except Opera maybe.
  - sirclueless 14y ago
    You realize that none of the alternatives are processing JavaScript? Of course the browser that runs JavaScript natively on the device is significantly better than all the gimpy alternatives, that's no surprise.
revorad 14y ago
Do you know why Chrome and Firefox are not on iOS? Because Apple only allows Safari Webkit. V8, Gecko or any other rendering or JS engines are not allowed. Opera Mini is based on Webkit and does any custom processing in the cloud, which is far from ideal for users. Why doesn't Apple allow third-party browsers? Because they might soil the oh-so-beautiful garden of apps that Apple is carefully curating. Imported roses are strictly prohibited, because - gasp - the thorns might prick the little soft fingers of these lovely obedient children. Trillion dollar cash piles don't come about by playing nice with competitors.
- robin_reala 14y ago
  Not entirely true. Opera has its own rendering and JS engines (nothing to do with Webkit). Opera Mobile (which has both client-side) is banned from the app store, but Opera Mini (which does the JS server-side, and renders a compressed format delivered by the server on the client) is OK.
  - revorad 14y ago
    Yes, we're talking about mobile here. I thought that was obvious, but still made it clear when I said iOS, not OS X.
    - Tloewald 14y ago
      Go to iPhone app store. Search for Opera.
- RandallBrown 14y ago
  Opera Mini on iOS does all of it's rendering in the cloud and passes compressed images to the phone. I'm pretty sure they use their own rendering engine, not WebKit.

ralfd 14y ago

But Apple also thinks the browser is the single most important piece of software on iOS. Because of that, they don't want to be dependent on a third party. They want to have their own optimized webkit engine used, so the users have the best experience. And it worked at least for the last 5 years, I greatly preferred Safari or iCab on iOS to the Android browsers.

revorad 14y ago
If you don't have any real options other than IE, you cannot imagine a Firefox is possible. Microsoft : IE :: Apple : Safari
- Tloewald 14y ago
  Except Safari is built on an open source core that powers Chrome, AIR, Silk, etc.
  - khuey 14y ago
    There are parts of the Safari that ships on iOS that are not open source (e.g. the bits that implement text-size-adjust).
- ralfd 14y ago
  The triumvirat of the future Web: Microsoft : IE :: Apple : Safari :: Google : Chrome It will be a hard place for Firefox and Opera. I read the blog post again, and I understand it so, that Mozilla can make a Windows 8 RT (ARM) version of Firefox, but only in a sandboxed version (no plugins/extensions?) and without access to the classic environment. So Microsoft is more lenient than Apple, but the result is perhaps the same, that it will be too tough to compete with the built in IE browser and its privileged features.
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    Mozilla can't make web applications run fast because they aren't allowed to JIT JavaScript code. That is by far the most important thing (and it's true on both iOS and Windows RT).

ezequiel-garzon 14y ago

What is B2G?

Zirro 14y ago
Boot2Gecko: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/hands-on-with-boot2gecko-the-mobile-os-built-entirely-on-web-standards http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/hands-on-with-boot2ge...
- ezequiel-garzon 14y ago
  Thanks!