4 ms·

Macs have a better design here - they use the more convenient thumb for Ctrl functions, so fn on the far left is not relevant But on a PC far left key is easie

by eviks 3y ago

Macs have a better design here - they use the more convenient thumb for Ctrl functions, so fn on the far left is not relevant But on a PC far left key is easier to press with a palm than the much less useful fn, so it's a welcome improvement in the default layout

kristianp 3y ago
> they use the more convenient thumb for Ctrl functions It's subjective. > palm Did you mean to say you're pressing a button with your palm?
- eviks 3y ago
  Rsi / emacs pinkies are objective maladies, and for (shift) control palm presses are one of the solutions
camgunz 3y ago
Nah in the terminal where I spend 90% of my time Ctrl is Ctrl.
- eviks 3y ago
  Unless you rebind it to make your experience 100% consistent
  - camgunz 3y ago
    > Macs have a better design here > Unless you rebind it to make your experience 100% consistent If we're saying rebinding is an acceptable solution then what does it matter what order the keys are in? You also can't really rebind the Fn/Ctrl/Option/Cmd to do what you're suggesting in macOS. I learned this using a ThinkPad USB keyboard on a Mac trying to get it to use Ctrl for the things you're used to on a non-Mac keyboard: there are a lot of clashes. For instance if you map Cmd-C -> Ctrl-C how do you copy things (or cancel things) in a terminal? I ended up binding the ThinkPad's keys to be what they would be on the Mac's keyboard.
    - eviks 3y ago
      > does it matter what order the keys are in? The amount of rebinding still differs due to Alt, defaults unfortunately matter even if you change them. > if you map Cmd-C -> Ctrl-C how do you copy things How do you do it on Windows where it's the same combo from the start? But also: by making it conditional on selection or simply using another letter
      - camgunz 3y ago
        I think I've lost the plot here. Let's play it back: 1. Me: Macs also have the same "Fn on the far left" layout as ThinkPads and Macs/ThinkPads have basically won in the tech space. 2. You: Macs have a better design here - they use the more convenient thumb for Ctrl functions, so fn on the far left is not relevant 3. Me: Nah in the terminal where I spend 90% of my time Ctrl is Ctrl. 4. You: Unless you rebind it to make your experience 100% consistent 5. Me: If we're saying rebinding is an acceptable solution then what does it matter what order the keys are in? 6. You: The amount of rebinding still differs due to Alt, defaults unfortunately matter even if you change them. Like, sure I guess rebinding 4 keys is more work than rebinding 3. I was just confused (5) because you said that the Mac's design is better (2) but then you seemed to abandon that argument by saying you can just rebind keys (4). Your response at (6) seems irrelevant; why is Alt (a key not on the Mac keyboard; do you mean Option?) germane? > How do you do it on Windows where it's the same combo from the start? Pretty much the same way the Mac does it [0]: let Ctrl-C mean "cancel" and use some other key combo for copy (you guessed it). But, again overall rebinding is an imperfect solution. A lot of things don't know you rebound your keys, there can be weird clashes, etc. [0]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/console/ctrl-c-and-ctrl-break-signals https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/console/ctrl-c-and...
        eviks 3y ago
        > why is Alt (a key not on the Mac keyboard; do you mean Option?) germane? It is a literal (as in both printed on the key and referenced in the OS/docs) key on a Mac keyboard with, you're just confused by the fact it also has another name. > A lot of things don't know you rebound your keys, there can be weird clashes, etc Like what? If you just move 4 keys all the things will know, that's a system-wide rebinding. And what clashes do you mean? You've only provided a single example Ctrl-C example, which turns out to be easy to resolve in either the same way it's resolved in Windows. Or in a better way But also, if you recognize there are many clashes that need to be resolved via rebinding, then this "rebinding 4 keys is more work than rebinding 3." doesn't make sense, guess that's why you're confused again. Alt is germane precisely because rebinding 4 keys isn't enough since default keybinds work differently with these modifiers. 1. On a Mac Cmd key is already used by the OS for most of control functions, so it's easy to rebind the few terminal Ctrl keys to Cmd without moving those 4 keys around, and resolve only those direct clashes 2. But on a PC Alt is used for some common operations, so if you move Ctrl to the more convenient thumb location, you'll have to deal with moving some of those keybinds, so resolve clashes that potentially touch more apps/keybinds than just terminal keybinds

by eviks 3y ago

kristianp 3y ago

> they use the more convenient thumb for Ctrl functions It's subjective. > palm Did you mean to say you're pressing a button with your palm?

eviks 3y ago
Rsi / emacs pinkies are objective maladies, and for (shift) control palm presses are one of the solutions

camgunz 3y ago

Nah in the terminal where I spend 90% of my time Ctrl is Ctrl.

eviks 3y ago
Unless you rebind it to make your experience 100% consistent
- camgunz 3y ago
  > Macs have a better design here > Unless you rebind it to make your experience 100% consistent If we're saying rebinding is an acceptable solution then what does it matter what order the keys are in? You also can't really rebind the Fn/Ctrl/Option/Cmd to do what you're suggesting in macOS. I learned this using a ThinkPad USB keyboard on a Mac trying to get it to use Ctrl for the things you're used to on a non-Mac keyboard: there are a lot of clashes. For instance if you map Cmd-C -> Ctrl-C how do you copy things (or cancel things) in a terminal? I ended up binding the ThinkPad's keys to be what they would be on the Mac's keyboard.
  - eviks 3y ago
    > does it matter what order the keys are in? The amount of rebinding still differs due to Alt, defaults unfortunately matter even if you change them. > if you map Cmd-C -> Ctrl-C how do you copy things How do you do it on Windows where it's the same combo from the start? But also: by making it conditional on selection or simply using another letter
    - camgunz 3y ago
      I think I've lost the plot here. Let's play it back: 1. Me: Macs also have the same "Fn on the far left" layout as ThinkPads and Macs/ThinkPads have basically won in the tech space. 2. You: Macs have a better design here - they use the more convenient thumb for Ctrl functions, so fn on the far left is not relevant 3. Me: Nah in the terminal where I spend 90% of my time Ctrl is Ctrl. 4. You: Unless you rebind it to make your experience 100% consistent 5. Me: If we're saying rebinding is an acceptable solution then what does it matter what order the keys are in? 6. You: The amount of rebinding still differs due to Alt, defaults unfortunately matter even if you change them. Like, sure I guess rebinding 4 keys is more work than rebinding 3. I was just confused (5) because you said that the Mac's design is better (2) but then you seemed to abandon that argument by saying you can just rebind keys (4). Your response at (6) seems irrelevant; why is Alt (a key not on the Mac keyboard; do you mean Option?) germane? > How do you do it on Windows where it's the same combo from the start? Pretty much the same way the Mac does it [0]: let Ctrl-C mean "cancel" and use some other key combo for copy (you guessed it). But, again overall rebinding is an imperfect solution. A lot of things don't know you rebound your keys, there can be weird clashes, etc. [0]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/console/ctrl-c-and-ctrl-break-signals https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/console/ctrl-c-and...
      - eviks 3y ago
        > why is Alt (a key not on the Mac keyboard; do you mean Option?) germane? It is a literal (as in both printed on the key and referenced in the OS/docs) key on a Mac keyboard with, you're just confused by the fact it also has another name. > A lot of things don't know you rebound your keys, there can be weird clashes, etc Like what? If you just move 4 keys all the things will know, that's a system-wide rebinding. And what clashes do you mean? You've only provided a single example Ctrl-C example, which turns out to be easy to resolve in either the same way it's resolved in Windows. Or in a better way But also, if you recognize there are many clashes that need to be resolved via rebinding, then this "rebinding 4 keys is more work than rebinding 3." doesn't make sense, guess that's why you're confused again. Alt is germane precisely because rebinding 4 keys isn't enough since default keybinds work differently with these modifiers. 1. On a Mac Cmd key is already used by the OS for most of control functions, so it's easy to rebind the few terminal Ctrl keys to Cmd without moving those 4 keys around, and resolve only those direct clashes 2. But on a PC Alt is used for some common operations, so if you move Ctrl to the more convenient thumb location, you'll have to deal with moving some of those keybinds, so resolve clashes that potentially touch more apps/keybinds than just terminal keybinds