8 ms·

The EU must intervene on this thing. This is anti-competitive and anti-consumer behavior, a malicious compliance that goes against the very principles of the DM

The EU must intervene on this thing. This is anti-competitive and anti-consumer behavior, a malicious compliance that goes against the very principles of the DMA.

rvnx 3y ago
Following one idea of regulation to the extreme: banning Apple products in Europe = problem solved. The EU markets can do that. However, in reality, regulations should be very scarcely used. We are entering in a world more and more full of sanctions and artificial borders (like patents who protect a few chosen ones, or customs tariffs which are likely to affect GPU cards in case US<->EU enter competition together). In this case, the message Apple wants to send is just to be left alone, instead of being brought to a planned-economy dream. Apple isn't really a monopoly situation. If users don't like the attitude of Apple, they can vote to close Apple: not buying theirs products. You can perfectly live without Apple products (they don't even have official shops in few European countries), but this isn't the case with real monopolies, you cannot live without them, like WeChat Pay in China for example. (I know that you know, it was just example of how regulations can get wrong)
- freedomben 3y ago
  > You can perfectly live without Apple products I'm in the US so maybe different, but it's increasingly hard to "live without Apple products." I refuse to buy Apple products, and it has had an affect. My kids keep running into challenges where an app they need for school or something is Apple only. Other times the app will be available on Android, but the teacher only covers the iOS version. Most recently my son has been getting excluded because he is a "green bubble." So I'm not disagreeing with your whole post, but I do disagree with that part.
  - rvnx 3y ago
    Mhh, you're right, I didn't think about that :(
  - nottorp 3y ago
    The common narrative among mobile developers seems to be that on iOS people will pay for your stuff, less so on Android. Note that I'm not a mobile developer (with the exception of some industrial Android apps that don't count), but this is my impression so if i wanted to sell a mobile app i'd start with iOS. It's possible that a lot of software developers and/or companies thought like me and only did iOS apps.
- matwood 3y ago
  This has been my argument. If users want more open and developers want more freedom, Android is there. It wouldn't take many developers to pull out before Apple made changes. And if they didn't change, users would begin to leave.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    This actually strengthens the argument about Apple being monopolistic IMHO. Clearly developers do want more freedom, and clearly they are still developing for iOS. As a developer you don't really have a choice. If you go exclusive to Android, you're missing a major, major piece of the market. I've been working in startups for 10 or so years now and every single one I've been at we had to support iOS because their market share is so high. There is no choice and no way around it for developers. You can really see these mechanisms in action in open source where making a profit and other market forces aren't at play, so developers are able to choose based on what they want. There are tons of open source apps for Android, and many many fewer for iOS. Android tends to get most open source first, with an iOS port coming later.
- InsomniacL 3y ago
  > Apple isn't really a monopoly situation. The Apple App Store does have a monopoly on 2.2 billion devices and did $85 billion in trade in 2021.
- Rapzid 3y ago
  They are going to need to use the stick with Apple for sure. But they'd be better off fining Apple come to Jesus money. A figure so astronomical the board considers firing Tim Cook and Apple considers abandoning the EU market on their own accord. Only just though. Enough for them to consider it but not do it.

The EU must intervene on this thing. This is anti-competitive and anti-consumer behavior, a malicious compliance that goes against the very principles of the DMA.

rvnx 3y ago

Following one idea of regulation to the extreme: banning Apple products in Europe = problem solved. The EU markets can do that. However, in reality, regulations should be very scarcely used. We are entering in a world more and more full of sanctions and artificial borders (like patents who protect a few chosen ones, or customs tariffs which are likely to affect GPU cards in case US<->EU enter competition together). In this case, the message Apple wants to send is just to be left alone, instead of being brought to a planned-economy dream. Apple isn't really a monopoly situation. If users don't like the attitude of Apple, they can vote to close Apple: not buying theirs products. You can perfectly live without Apple products (they don't even have official shops in few European countries), but this isn't the case with real monopolies, you cannot live without them, like WeChat Pay in China for example. (I know that you know, it was just example of how regulations can get wrong)

freedomben 3y ago
> You can perfectly live without Apple products I'm in the US so maybe different, but it's increasingly hard to "live without Apple products." I refuse to buy Apple products, and it has had an affect. My kids keep running into challenges where an app they need for school or something is Apple only. Other times the app will be available on Android, but the teacher only covers the iOS version. Most recently my son has been getting excluded because he is a "green bubble." So I'm not disagreeing with your whole post, but I do disagree with that part.
- rvnx 3y ago
  Mhh, you're right, I didn't think about that :(
- nottorp 3y ago
  The common narrative among mobile developers seems to be that on iOS people will pay for your stuff, less so on Android. Note that I'm not a mobile developer (with the exception of some industrial Android apps that don't count), but this is my impression so if i wanted to sell a mobile app i'd start with iOS. It's possible that a lot of software developers and/or companies thought like me and only did iOS apps.
matwood 3y ago
This has been my argument. If users want more open and developers want more freedom, Android is there. It wouldn't take many developers to pull out before Apple made changes. And if they didn't change, users would begin to leave.
- freedomben 3y ago
  This actually strengthens the argument about Apple being monopolistic IMHO. Clearly developers do want more freedom, and clearly they are still developing for iOS. As a developer you don't really have a choice. If you go exclusive to Android, you're missing a major, major piece of the market. I've been working in startups for 10 or so years now and every single one I've been at we had to support iOS because their market share is so high. There is no choice and no way around it for developers. You can really see these mechanisms in action in open source where making a profit and other market forces aren't at play, so developers are able to choose based on what they want. There are tons of open source apps for Android, and many many fewer for iOS. Android tends to get most open source first, with an iOS port coming later.
InsomniacL 3y ago
> Apple isn't really a monopoly situation. The Apple App Store does have a monopoly on 2.2 billion devices and did $85 billion in trade in 2021.
Rapzid 3y ago
They are going to need to use the stick with Apple for sure. But they'd be better off fining Apple come to Jesus money. A figure so astronomical the board considers firing Tim Cook and Apple considers abandoning the EU market on their own accord. Only just though. Enough for them to consider it but not do it.