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Creating your own app is actually pretty easy on iOS. I run an app on my phone right now that I built myself and that is not on the app store.

by boxed 3y ago

Timwi 3y ago
> Creating your own app is actually pretty easy on iOS. I don't believe you. I believe that you probably left out some crucial detail, such as having to own a Mac first.
- boxed 3y ago
  Well.. Yea. Sure. But saying "you cannot" is very different from "you need a mac".
  - colonwqbang 3y ago
    But this is exactly the kind of behaviour targeted by the DMA. Artificial restrictions in the functionality of iphone are inserted to drive sales of an unrelated product. It's page one of the Monopolist Playbook.
    - tambourine_man 3y ago
      Maintaining a developer toolkit for Windows and Linux is a major hurdle. If they intentionally prevent a third party Xcode-compatible implementation from existing, that’s monopolistic behavior. If they don’t want to provide it themselves, it’s a rightful business choice and theirs to make, in my book.
    - boxed 3y ago
      I noticed that you moved the goalpost. Quite a bit. "Cannot" to "need a mac" is an enormous move. If you think sales of macs are affected in a measurable way by the fact that xcode runs on it you are delusional.
  - Timwi 3y ago
    You didn't say “can”, you said “actually pretty easy”.
the_gipsy 3y ago
It's not easy, you need a multithousand dollar apple machine, and you can't share this app with anybody else.
- JimDabell 3y ago
  No, you don’t. You need a Mac, but you don’t need to buy one. You can use a free tier on a build service like Bitrise if you don’t have a Mac.
  - xandrius 3y ago
    But don't you see how it is yet another hurdle? Android builds work on that same mac too.
    - JimDabell 3y ago
      I didn’t say it wasn’t a hurdle, I said you don’t need a “multi thousand dollar Apple machine”. And the cheapest Macs cost way less than that anyway.
  - the_gipsy 3y ago
    Perhaps technically possible, but in practice it's against apple development directives. I doubt you do this yourself, or know anyone that actually develops iOS apps from a non-mac in the real world. And you still can't share that app.
    - JimDabell 3y ago
      > in practice it's against apple development directives. Most professional iOS developers use these kinds of services. They are totally commonplace and not against Apple’s terms in the slightest.
      - the_gipsy 3y ago
        I feel you're being disingenuous. Close to zero professional iOS developers develop on a non-mac.
ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago
Is the $100 developer fee not required for own - non app store - apps?
- JimDabell 3y ago
  No, you can deploy to your own device with a free Apple developer account. However there is a fairly short time line (I think a week?), after which you have to reinstall it. It’s designed for running apps on your device as you are developing them, not as a long-term deployment method.
  - boxed 3y ago
    Months. I have one on my phone that I haven't reinstalled for months. And I do this on my wife's phone, and let me tell you the wife acceptance factor of the app breaking after a week would be absolutely zero. I don't know where you get these rumors from honestly.
    - JimDabell 3y ago
      With a free account? I’ve heard many, many times that free accounts have a short expiry. I thought it was seven days, and I’ve just checked, and I remembered the duration correctly. I can’t find an official source, but people mention this limit practically everywhere the topic is discussed. Here’s one reference, Google can help you find many, many more: https://stackoverflow.com/a/73014888/8427 https://stackoverflow.com/a/73014888/8427 > Without Official Apple Dev Account > If you don't have an official Apple Dev Account provisioning will only last for 1 week. The app will expire every 7 days (or less in some cases -- depending upon the day the initial certificate was created). > With Official Apple Dev Account > You will be able to provision your app for up to 1 year. Can you create a provisioning profile with an expiry more than one week into the future with a free account?
      - boxed 3y ago
        Aha, yea ok. That's gotta be it. My bad. I do have paid account, since I have apps in the store and you have to pay that fee every year to keep that up (which is annoying for my free hobby apps!)
dvngnt_ 3y ago
installing it without Apple's blessing is the real problem

Creating your own app is actually pretty easy on iOS. I run an app on my phone right now that I built myself and that is not on the app store.

by boxed 3y ago

Creating your own app is actually pretty easy on iOS. I run an app on my phone right now that I built myself and that is not on the app store.

Timwi 3y ago

> Creating your own app is actually pretty easy on iOS. I don't believe you. I believe that you probably left out some crucial detail, such as having to own a Mac first.

boxed 3y ago
Well.. Yea. Sure. But saying "you cannot" is very different from "you need a mac".
- colonwqbang 3y ago
  But this is exactly the kind of behaviour targeted by the DMA. Artificial restrictions in the functionality of iphone are inserted to drive sales of an unrelated product. It's page one of the Monopolist Playbook.
  - tambourine_man 3y ago
    Maintaining a developer toolkit for Windows and Linux is a major hurdle. If they intentionally prevent a third party Xcode-compatible implementation from existing, that’s monopolistic behavior. If they don’t want to provide it themselves, it’s a rightful business choice and theirs to make, in my book.
  - boxed 3y ago
    I noticed that you moved the goalpost. Quite a bit. "Cannot" to "need a mac" is an enormous move. If you think sales of macs are affected in a measurable way by the fact that xcode runs on it you are delusional.
- Timwi 3y ago
  You didn't say “can”, you said “actually pretty easy”.

the_gipsy 3y ago

It's not easy, you need a multithousand dollar apple machine, and you can't share this app with anybody else.

JimDabell 3y ago
No, you don’t. You need a Mac, but you don’t need to buy one. You can use a free tier on a build service like Bitrise if you don’t have a Mac.
- xandrius 3y ago
  But don't you see how it is yet another hurdle? Android builds work on that same mac too.
  - JimDabell 3y ago
    I didn’t say it wasn’t a hurdle, I said you don’t need a “multi thousand dollar Apple machine”. And the cheapest Macs cost way less than that anyway.
- the_gipsy 3y ago
  Perhaps technically possible, but in practice it's against apple development directives. I doubt you do this yourself, or know anyone that actually develops iOS apps from a non-mac in the real world. And you still can't share that app.
  - JimDabell 3y ago
    > in practice it's against apple development directives. Most professional iOS developers use these kinds of services. They are totally commonplace and not against Apple’s terms in the slightest.
    - the_gipsy 3y ago
      I feel you're being disingenuous. Close to zero professional iOS developers develop on a non-mac.

ThatMedicIsASpy 3y ago

Is the $100 developer fee not required for own - non app store - apps?

JimDabell 3y ago
No, you can deploy to your own device with a free Apple developer account. However there is a fairly short time line (I think a week?), after which you have to reinstall it. It’s designed for running apps on your device as you are developing them, not as a long-term deployment method.
- boxed 3y ago
  Months. I have one on my phone that I haven't reinstalled for months. And I do this on my wife's phone, and let me tell you the wife acceptance factor of the app breaking after a week would be absolutely zero. I don't know where you get these rumors from honestly.
  - JimDabell 3y ago
    With a free account? I’ve heard many, many times that free accounts have a short expiry. I thought it was seven days, and I’ve just checked, and I remembered the duration correctly. I can’t find an official source, but people mention this limit practically everywhere the topic is discussed. Here’s one reference, Google can help you find many, many more: https://stackoverflow.com/a/73014888/8427 https://stackoverflow.com/a/73014888/8427 > Without Official Apple Dev Account > If you don't have an official Apple Dev Account provisioning will only last for 1 week. The app will expire every 7 days (or less in some cases -- depending upon the day the initial certificate was created). > With Official Apple Dev Account > You will be able to provision your app for up to 1 year. Can you create a provisioning profile with an expiry more than one week into the future with a free account?
    - boxed 3y ago
      Aha, yea ok. That's gotta be it. My bad. I do have paid account, since I have apps in the store and you have to pay that fee every year to keep that up (which is annoying for my free hobby apps!)

dvngnt_ 3y ago

installing it without Apple's blessing is the real problem