5 ms·

Attention deficits linked with proclivity to explore while foraging

50 points by Tomte 3y ago

lqet 3y ago
> Dr Barack and his colleagues collected data from 457 adults who completed an online foraging game where they had to collect as many berries as possible within eight minutes. > Participants who scored higher on the ADHD scale spent shorter periods of time in each patch of bushes and were thus more likely to gain more points in the game than participants with lower scores on the ADHD scale. So as I understand it, ADHD in that setup basically introduces chaos / randomness to avoid falling into local optima. It immediately follows that having ADHD may be a major disadvantage in environments where there is only one global optimum (for example, a highly regulated and deterministic academic environment like school or undergraduate studies, or an established corporate environment).
- yamrzou 3y ago
  > So as I understand it, ADHD in that setup basically introduces chaos / randomness to avoid falling into local optima. Well said. In other words, the ADHD “agent” mostly chooses the exploration strategy in the Exploration vs. Exploitation dilemma.
  - _boffin_ 3y ago
    This puts so much of my life into perspective.
  - milesvp 3y ago
    What I’m curious about is how this relates to other findings that ADHD individuals tend to be better in crises than non ADHD. That is a scenario where honing in and focusing on doing the necessary thing is paramount, and where many just flounder and do nothing.
    - nyokodo 3y ago
      > ADHD individuals tend to be better in crises than non ADHD Two potential factors come to mind. Firstly, those with ADHD are always having to think on their feet and drag their attention back to the issue at hand so when there is a highly distracting and distressing situation it is merely an issue of degree for them. Secondly, another symptom of ADHD is hyper-focus which may help in certain crises.
- blowski 3y ago
  If that's right, then it follows that giving medication to suppress it is a bad idea for humanity as a whole. Although it may help an individual cope better with a local situation, it would be better to have more situations in which an individual with ADHD can thrive.
  - andybak 3y ago
    You can choose when to take meds and when not to. I was actively encouraged by my doctor to be selective and I have a prescription for both the timed release and the normal forms. I am fully capable of recognising situations where the meds help and where they hinder.
    - JohnBooty 3y ago
      I am fully capable of recognising situations where the meds help and where they hinder. How does this work for you in practice? I take mine selectively as well, to an extent. But in practice I am limited by the fact that there's a certain physical dependency - if I'm accustomed to N mg daily, I can't take less than about 50% of that dose without feeling some withdrawal symptoms such as brainfog and physical lethargy. (For whatever it's worth: I don't have much trouble cycling off completely. I can go from 100% to 0% in a few days if I taper the dosage.)
      - andybak 3y ago
        I've never noticed any withdrawal effects.
        JohnBooty 3y ago
        That's awesome. Withdrawal is certainly not unheard-of. https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adderall-withdrawal https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adderall-withdrawal Based on anecdotal experience I kind of want to say mild withdrawal is the norm but that might well be selection bias at work: people are more likely to talk about withdrawal than they are to talk about the lack of withdrawal. In my personal experience, just to put things in perspective: I would describe my adderall withdrawal as approximately half as bad as caffeine withdrawal. I don't have any other forms of withdrawal with which to compare it.
astrange 3y ago
That experiment is slightly funny because there's a popular Hololive streamer who's famous for 1. being ADHD and 2. collecting lots of berries in Minecraft.
pentaphobe 3y ago
Previously https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39503740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39503740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39502145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39502145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39482292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39482292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39464367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39464367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39454924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39454924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39452680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39452680
Netcob 3y ago
I think it would make sense to study advantages of ADHD in the modern world as well. Personally I think the "default" in our society where you're required to focus for 8h a day on things you aren't constantly enthusiastic about puts individuals with ADHD at a disatvantage, to the point where we can either try to bridge the gap with medication, or find non-9to5 jobs that we are better suited for. But while I have a strong suspicion that ADHD is an advantage in some jobs, I think it should be studied more thoroughly.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
sidcool 3y ago
Well it's not now, so please eradicate it. :)
K0balt 3y ago
I have often considered my experiences with depression in a similar context. Depression drives me to optimise for satisfaction rather than joy, which makes me into an occasional workaholic where I will obsess over goals, ignoring all other interactions. Could be advantageous in climates where preparation for winter was critical for survival?
- lqet 3y ago
  I think that's true. Perfectionism / always seeing flaws everywhere and always expecting the worst would have been a major evolutionary advantage in areas where not being prepared for winter essentially meant death for you and all your loved ones. 500 years ago, my ancestors lived in high-alpine settlements. 200 years later, they successfully lived through the 30 years war in an area where 70% of the population starved or was slaughtered to pieces. I always wondered how the traits selected by these events / environments might still affect me hundreds of years later.
- imtringued 3y ago
  Depression is optimal for rumination/pondering. It signals that you and your current environment do not match the ideas you have about what you and your environment should be like. Either change the environment or change yourself or change your ideal image of yourself or the environment. Your body doesn't exist for the sole purpose of self harm. It exists to keep you alive and have offspring. You could think of depression as a dynamically added constraint in a linear programming problem. When you add the constraints, the current solution becomes infeasible, indicating that you can't stay where you are, you must search for the new optimum. Using medication or telling people to stop being depressed is counterproductive, since it interrupts the process that the depression is supposed to kickstart.
gardenhedge 3y ago
Questions for those who have ADHD: is it possible to have ADHD and not be able to focus on certain things (important conversations, studying, planning) while also being able to really focus on other specific things like programming?
- samuelous 3y ago
  That is one of the hallmarks of ADHD, and also why it can be so hard for other people to imagine what it is like.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  Yes, it's extremely common in ADHD. This is called hyperfocus(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus). Inattention in ADHD isn't really the inability to focus, it's the inability to direct focus.
- LittleNemoInS 3y ago
  Yes, of course. If something is really interesting to the ADHDer, he or she can completely forget every thing else and enter in hyperfocus mode [1]. When one is diagnosed, and aware of this hyperfocus thing, one can use it very efficiently. I, for one, use it to work, with the help of an app called Focus@will, where I can set a timer, and play very loud music, so my brain is focused on the task at hand. [1]: https://add.org/adhd-hyperfocus/ https://add.org/adhd-hyperfocus/
  - tailspin2019 3y ago
    > When one is diagnosed, and aware of this hyperfocus thing, one can use it very efficiently. Some can. Others end up in jail [0], or dead [1]. I wouldn't want anyone to assume that if they have ADHD, they automatically have access to some sort of super power - it doesn't always work out like that. Like you though, I do try to harness this as best as possible for work. Music works quite well as an aid for me too. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/18/uk-prisoners-attention-deficit-disorder-adhd-prison https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/18/uk-prisoners... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371172/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371172/
mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
This research is pretty dubious given they didn't do thorough ADHD diagnosis on the subjects, only a 6 question self-report test. Then they used some kinda ML hokum to supposedly strengthen their confidence in the results of those 6 questions. Seems pretty sloppy to me.
theultdev 3y ago
It's an evolutionary advantage for humans today. There's a reason ADHD articles are shared profusely here. Information moves faster these days, you need ADHD to process it efficiently and hyper-focus on long tasks. Those who can do that naturally become developers. You just have to workaround social norms like work schedules. Helps to own your own business or at least work remotely.
- tailspin2019 3y ago
  > Helps to own your own business or at least work remotely. I wonder how many ADHDers learnt this during COVID. It may have been the first opportunity for some to experience this and perhaps realise that they can work more effectively in a different environment (which they have more control over).
  - andybak 3y ago
    Absolutely. Lockdown was a complete revelation to me. The removal of FOMO and the narrowing of options was incredibly beneficial.
- Filligree 3y ago
  It can be an advantage; it certainly isn't so at all times. But you're right that most of the disadvantages stem from other people, and aren't inherent. It's more than a bit annoying.
  - theultdev 3y ago
    The inverse is true as well, not having ADHD can be a disadvantage, especially for developers. (trying to stay focused on a long task or figure something out quickly skimming through things)
    - dailykoder 3y ago
      That's what you'd think when you hear people talk about hyperfocus. But trust me, you don't want to have ADHD. You only want to have the good sides of it.
Gerard0 3y ago
Total noob here. Is there a reference book about ADHD I could read? What are the things "most people" agree ADHD "is"?
- xdavidliu 3y ago
  I liked Scattered by Gabor Mate, though not really a reference work, more a primer or intro
  - Gerard0 3y ago
    Thanks!
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  "You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?!" is one of, if not the, most popular ones. Saw a lot of myself in there. What are the things "most people" agree ADHD "is"? Above all else, it's an executive functioning disorder. Not entirely dissimilar from OCD in some ways. You find yourself unable to focus on what you know needs to be done, quite possibly because you're unable to tear your focus away from something else. Inattention, impulsivity, hyperfocus, hyperactivity. Adult ADHD does not often involve physical hyperactivity. Hyperfocus can be an incredible boon if you happen to be hyperfocused on something useful. But the catch is that it's not a switch you can flip at all and you can't necessarily choose what you're focused on. There are different subtypes such as "primarily inattentive" etc. A lot of people don't believe in ADHD or think it's a "lack of discipline" etc. Like many disorders, symptoms of ADHD are things everybody experiences to an extent and it becomes a "disorder" when it starts to impact one's functioning. In much the way that everybody is sad sometimes but when it becomes pervasive we call it a disorder called "depression." I think what I've said above is all mostly universally agreed upon.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    Actually hyperactivity is very common in adult ADHD, it just manifests differently. It tends to take the form of repetitive movements like shaking a foot, rocking a leg, fidgeting with your hands, etc. It's sort of a naturally developed coping mechanism. People with adult hyperactive/impulsive or combined type ADHD often don't think of this as hyperactivity, partly because they're so used to it they're barely aware of it, or the fact that it's not normal.
jjallen 3y ago
Just FYI my ADHD has recently disappeared after eating an elimination diet and supplementing with a few things that are known to be anti inflammatory. This has caused me to doubt the belief that all modern mental disorders had an “evolutionary advantage” or that we should assume so.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- blueyoda 3y ago
  What diet did you use exactly? I would love to give it a try.
  - jjallen 3y ago
    Email me and I’d be happy to try and help you more than this. Mine is definitely almost gone though. Conclusion is that multiple foods I am sensitive to and cause some sort of immune response/ inflammation. Although a simple suggestion would be to search for ADHD elimination diet. Basically I cut out everything but apples pears rice potatoes carrots fish meat olive oil salt pepper broccoli and cauliflower.
shubhamjain 3y ago
I dislike theories like this; how ADHD, and depression could be mechanisms that evolved because of some evolutionary advantage they give us. I am not denying that could be the case, but living in a world full of stimulation everywhere is vastly different from living in a hunter-gatherer commune. ADHD could just be a neurological defect that never manifested itself in a quiet communal lifestyle, and become pronounced with modern technology. I don't think there's much point in theorizing how it could've offered an evolutionary advantage, because even if ADHD existed at that time, it would be very, very different from what it is today.
- corobo 3y ago
  > evolved because of some evolutionary advantage In fairness that's not really how evolution works. If a person reproduces, their traits are not eliminated. Evolution doesn't optimise for advantages, it eradicates disadvantages that preclude reproduction > ADHD could just be a neurological defect that never manifested itself in a quiet communal lifestyle, and become pronounced with modern technology. I agree on this - My personal theory is that ADHD is basically just a lower level of background dopamine (expanded thoughts here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39453578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39453578) in the same way some people have trouble producing insulin - in the age of basic survival it's probably not that much of a hindrance, there's a constant supply of dopamine spikes. Surviving, being an integral and useful part of the tribe, getting bored of the current berry bushes and moving on to finding the next while the normal people finish harvesting this lot, chasing down wild animals while not being eaten, getting major props for inventing a better pointy stick to hunt with, that sort of thing. Modern day doesn't really have as much of that - the high enough to matter dopamine spikes are at least much less frequent (compounding that over many years leading to depression and lack of motivation etc)
hereme888 3y ago
Did I understand correctly that the study was done with people that displayed ADHD-like behavior, but were not actually diagnosed with ADHD, and then made presumptions about the advantages of ADHD?
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  Yes.
tmaly 3y ago
This sounds like a bandit algorithm of some sort.

50 points by Tomte 3y ago

lqet 3y ago

> Dr Barack and his colleagues collected data from 457 adults who completed an online foraging game where they had to collect as many berries as possible within eight minutes. > Participants who scored higher on the ADHD scale spent shorter periods of time in each patch of bushes and were thus more likely to gain more points in the game than participants with lower scores on the ADHD scale. So as I understand it, ADHD in that setup basically introduces chaos / randomness to avoid falling into local optima. It immediately follows that having ADHD may be a major disadvantage in environments where there is only one global optimum (for example, a highly regulated and deterministic academic environment like school or undergraduate studies, or an established corporate environment).

yamrzou 3y ago
> So as I understand it, ADHD in that setup basically introduces chaos / randomness to avoid falling into local optima. Well said. In other words, the ADHD “agent” mostly chooses the exploration strategy in the Exploration vs. Exploitation dilemma.
- _boffin_ 3y ago
  This puts so much of my life into perspective.
- milesvp 3y ago
  What I’m curious about is how this relates to other findings that ADHD individuals tend to be better in crises than non ADHD. That is a scenario where honing in and focusing on doing the necessary thing is paramount, and where many just flounder and do nothing.
  - nyokodo 3y ago
    > ADHD individuals tend to be better in crises than non ADHD Two potential factors come to mind. Firstly, those with ADHD are always having to think on their feet and drag their attention back to the issue at hand so when there is a highly distracting and distressing situation it is merely an issue of degree for them. Secondly, another symptom of ADHD is hyper-focus which may help in certain crises.
blowski 3y ago
If that's right, then it follows that giving medication to suppress it is a bad idea for humanity as a whole. Although it may help an individual cope better with a local situation, it would be better to have more situations in which an individual with ADHD can thrive.
- andybak 3y ago
  You can choose when to take meds and when not to. I was actively encouraged by my doctor to be selective and I have a prescription for both the timed release and the normal forms. I am fully capable of recognising situations where the meds help and where they hinder.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    I am fully capable of recognising situations where the meds help and where they hinder. How does this work for you in practice? I take mine selectively as well, to an extent. But in practice I am limited by the fact that there's a certain physical dependency - if I'm accustomed to N mg daily, I can't take less than about 50% of that dose without feeling some withdrawal symptoms such as brainfog and physical lethargy. (For whatever it's worth: I don't have much trouble cycling off completely. I can go from 100% to 0% in a few days if I taper the dosage.)
    - andybak 3y ago
      I've never noticed any withdrawal effects.
      - JohnBooty 3y ago
        That's awesome. Withdrawal is certainly not unheard-of. https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adderall-withdrawal https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adderall-withdrawal Based on anecdotal experience I kind of want to say mild withdrawal is the norm but that might well be selection bias at work: people are more likely to talk about withdrawal than they are to talk about the lack of withdrawal. In my personal experience, just to put things in perspective: I would describe my adderall withdrawal as approximately half as bad as caffeine withdrawal. I don't have any other forms of withdrawal with which to compare it.

astrange 3y ago

That experiment is slightly funny because there's a popular Hololive streamer who's famous for 1. being ADHD and 2. collecting lots of berries in Minecraft.

pentaphobe 3y ago

Previously https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39503740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39503740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39502145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39502145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39482292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39482292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39464367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39464367 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39454924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39454924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39452680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39452680

Netcob 3y ago

I think it would make sense to study advantages of ADHD in the modern world as well. Personally I think the "default" in our society where you're required to focus for 8h a day on things you aren't constantly enthusiastic about puts individuals with ADHD at a disatvantage, to the point where we can either try to bridge the gap with medication, or find non-9to5 jobs that we are better suited for. But while I have a strong suspicion that ADHD is an advantage in some jobs, I think it should be studied more thoroughly.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

sidcool 3y ago

Well it's not now, so please eradicate it. :)

K0balt 3y ago

I have often considered my experiences with depression in a similar context. Depression drives me to optimise for satisfaction rather than joy, which makes me into an occasional workaholic where I will obsess over goals, ignoring all other interactions. Could be advantageous in climates where preparation for winter was critical for survival?

lqet 3y ago
I think that's true. Perfectionism / always seeing flaws everywhere and always expecting the worst would have been a major evolutionary advantage in areas where not being prepared for winter essentially meant death for you and all your loved ones. 500 years ago, my ancestors lived in high-alpine settlements. 200 years later, they successfully lived through the 30 years war in an area where 70% of the population starved or was slaughtered to pieces. I always wondered how the traits selected by these events / environments might still affect me hundreds of years later.
imtringued 3y ago
Depression is optimal for rumination/pondering. It signals that you and your current environment do not match the ideas you have about what you and your environment should be like. Either change the environment or change yourself or change your ideal image of yourself or the environment. Your body doesn't exist for the sole purpose of self harm. It exists to keep you alive and have offspring. You could think of depression as a dynamically added constraint in a linear programming problem. When you add the constraints, the current solution becomes infeasible, indicating that you can't stay where you are, you must search for the new optimum. Using medication or telling people to stop being depressed is counterproductive, since it interrupts the process that the depression is supposed to kickstart.

gardenhedge 3y ago

Questions for those who have ADHD: is it possible to have ADHD and not be able to focus on certain things (important conversations, studying, planning) while also being able to really focus on other specific things like programming?

samuelous 3y ago
That is one of the hallmarks of ADHD, and also why it can be so hard for other people to imagine what it is like.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Yes, it's extremely common in ADHD. This is called hyperfocus(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus). Inattention in ADHD isn't really the inability to focus, it's the inability to direct focus.
LittleNemoInS 3y ago
Yes, of course. If something is really interesting to the ADHDer, he or she can completely forget every thing else and enter in hyperfocus mode [1]. When one is diagnosed, and aware of this hyperfocus thing, one can use it very efficiently. I, for one, use it to work, with the help of an app called Focus@will, where I can set a timer, and play very loud music, so my brain is focused on the task at hand. [1]: https://add.org/adhd-hyperfocus/ https://add.org/adhd-hyperfocus/
- tailspin2019 3y ago
  > When one is diagnosed, and aware of this hyperfocus thing, one can use it very efficiently. Some can. Others end up in jail [0], or dead [1]. I wouldn't want anyone to assume that if they have ADHD, they automatically have access to some sort of super power - it doesn't always work out like that. Like you though, I do try to harness this as best as possible for work. Music works quite well as an aid for me too. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/18/uk-prisoners-attention-deficit-disorder-adhd-prison https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/18/uk-prisoners... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371172/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371172/

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago

This research is pretty dubious given they didn't do thorough ADHD diagnosis on the subjects, only a 6 question self-report test. Then they used some kinda ML hokum to supposedly strengthen their confidence in the results of those 6 questions. Seems pretty sloppy to me.

theultdev 3y ago

It's an evolutionary advantage for humans today. There's a reason ADHD articles are shared profusely here. Information moves faster these days, you need ADHD to process it efficiently and hyper-focus on long tasks. Those who can do that naturally become developers. You just have to workaround social norms like work schedules. Helps to own your own business or at least work remotely.

tailspin2019 3y ago
> Helps to own your own business or at least work remotely. I wonder how many ADHDers learnt this during COVID. It may have been the first opportunity for some to experience this and perhaps realise that they can work more effectively in a different environment (which they have more control over).
- andybak 3y ago
  Absolutely. Lockdown was a complete revelation to me. The removal of FOMO and the narrowing of options was incredibly beneficial.
Filligree 3y ago
It can be an advantage; it certainly isn't so at all times. But you're right that most of the disadvantages stem from other people, and aren't inherent. It's more than a bit annoying.
- theultdev 3y ago
  The inverse is true as well, not having ADHD can be a disadvantage, especially for developers. (trying to stay focused on a long task or figure something out quickly skimming through things)
  - dailykoder 3y ago
    That's what you'd think when you hear people talk about hyperfocus. But trust me, you don't want to have ADHD. You only want to have the good sides of it.

Gerard0 3y ago

Total noob here. Is there a reference book about ADHD I could read? What are the things "most people" agree ADHD "is"?

xdavidliu 3y ago
I liked Scattered by Gabor Mate, though not really a reference work, more a primer or intro
- Gerard0 3y ago
  Thanks!
JohnBooty 3y ago
"You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?!" is one of, if not the, most popular ones. Saw a lot of myself in there. What are the things "most people" agree ADHD "is"? Above all else, it's an executive functioning disorder. Not entirely dissimilar from OCD in some ways. You find yourself unable to focus on what you know needs to be done, quite possibly because you're unable to tear your focus away from something else. Inattention, impulsivity, hyperfocus, hyperactivity. Adult ADHD does not often involve physical hyperactivity. Hyperfocus can be an incredible boon if you happen to be hyperfocused on something useful. But the catch is that it's not a switch you can flip at all and you can't necessarily choose what you're focused on. There are different subtypes such as "primarily inattentive" etc. A lot of people don't believe in ADHD or think it's a "lack of discipline" etc. Like many disorders, symptoms of ADHD are things everybody experiences to an extent and it becomes a "disorder" when it starts to impact one's functioning. In much the way that everybody is sad sometimes but when it becomes pervasive we call it a disorder called "depression." I think what I've said above is all mostly universally agreed upon.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  Actually hyperactivity is very common in adult ADHD, it just manifests differently. It tends to take the form of repetitive movements like shaking a foot, rocking a leg, fidgeting with your hands, etc. It's sort of a naturally developed coping mechanism. People with adult hyperactive/impulsive or combined type ADHD often don't think of this as hyperactivity, partly because they're so used to it they're barely aware of it, or the fact that it's not normal.

jjallen 3y ago

Just FYI my ADHD has recently disappeared after eating an elimination diet and supplementing with a few things that are known to be anti inflammatory. This has caused me to doubt the belief that all modern mental disorders had an “evolutionary advantage” or that we should assume so.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
blueyoda 3y ago
What diet did you use exactly? I would love to give it a try.
- jjallen 3y ago
  Email me and I’d be happy to try and help you more than this. Mine is definitely almost gone though. Conclusion is that multiple foods I am sensitive to and cause some sort of immune response/ inflammation. Although a simple suggestion would be to search for ADHD elimination diet. Basically I cut out everything but apples pears rice potatoes carrots fish meat olive oil salt pepper broccoli and cauliflower.

shubhamjain 3y ago

I dislike theories like this; how ADHD, and depression could be mechanisms that evolved because of some evolutionary advantage they give us. I am not denying that could be the case, but living in a world full of stimulation everywhere is vastly different from living in a hunter-gatherer commune. ADHD could just be a neurological defect that never manifested itself in a quiet communal lifestyle, and become pronounced with modern technology. I don't think there's much point in theorizing how it could've offered an evolutionary advantage, because even if ADHD existed at that time, it would be very, very different from what it is today.

corobo 3y ago
> evolved because of some evolutionary advantage In fairness that's not really how evolution works. If a person reproduces, their traits are not eliminated. Evolution doesn't optimise for advantages, it eradicates disadvantages that preclude reproduction > ADHD could just be a neurological defect that never manifested itself in a quiet communal lifestyle, and become pronounced with modern technology. I agree on this - My personal theory is that ADHD is basically just a lower level of background dopamine (expanded thoughts here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39453578 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39453578) in the same way some people have trouble producing insulin - in the age of basic survival it's probably not that much of a hindrance, there's a constant supply of dopamine spikes. Surviving, being an integral and useful part of the tribe, getting bored of the current berry bushes and moving on to finding the next while the normal people finish harvesting this lot, chasing down wild animals while not being eaten, getting major props for inventing a better pointy stick to hunt with, that sort of thing. Modern day doesn't really have as much of that - the high enough to matter dopamine spikes are at least much less frequent (compounding that over many years leading to depression and lack of motivation etc)

hereme888 3y ago

Did I understand correctly that the study was done with people that displayed ADHD-like behavior, but were not actually diagnosed with ADHD, and then made presumptions about the advantages of ADHD?

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Yes.

tmaly 3y ago

This sounds like a bandit algorithm of some sort.