5 ms·

As much as I like Linux, tides won’t be shifting for desktop to Linux. It will be Microsoft Windows for years to come

traverseda 3y ago
I honestly think that Gnome is a big part of this. A lot of people very obviously and loudly like it, but since I've been giving developers the option to use KDE they've been a lot happier with it all.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  GNOME2 was the apex of GNOME, fortunately MATE and Cinnamon are keeping its legacy alive.
- fuzzy2 3y ago
  Except they're two sides of the same coin. The underlying technology (software) is almost all the same. And it is not problem-free, unfortunately.
- probably_satan 3y ago
  Xfce is far better than Gnome and KDE to me personally. Gnome-shell is nice on a tablet though.
netsharc 3y ago
Yeah, Microsoft's got a huge majority of users captive and now they can do as they please, "Oh you don't like this obnoxious new 'feature'? Well what are you going to do about it?", like an abusive partner. If only there's some company with money and clout to offer an OS with the same level of user-friendliness... Too bad Google's product managers are just busy trying to advance their own careers, plus it's not like they respect users...
- whaleofatw2022 3y ago
  They are even worse on the OSS side. They'll push azure on everyone while shitting on the community that kept .NET alive between 2012-2019
- trealira 3y ago
  > If only there's some company with money and clout to offer an OS with the same level of user-friendliness... Legit question: do you think there will ever be a new commercial desktop operating system (not one that's given away for free) that isn't Windows or MacOS again in the next 30 years? Because Linux is free, and Windows is ubiquitous, and because you need a lot of hardware support and support for existing applications to be see usage, it seems hard for any new company to break into the market with something genuinely new. It seems like the way things are now are how they'll be for a long time. We'll just always use Linux, MacOS, or Windows, with superficial changes, I suppose. Or a BSD.
  - netsharc 3y ago
    > Legit question: do you think there will ever be a new commercial desktop operating system... Nope, no one is willing to put up the money for a long term investment. If I had the billions, I'd fund an easily installable OS that can accept Windows hardware drivers (easier said than done...). Or the cheaper way would probably to fund a slick Linux distro that an average user isn't scared away, but I guess they already are slick enough nowadays? I installed a Manjaro KDE distro on a secondary PC a while ago, and on login it had the option of X11 or Wayland, but Wayland wouldn't work on my setup... Sigh, the average user doesn't care to learn about windowing system options, they just want to do their work.
probably_satan 3y ago
I've converted a handful of some of the least computer tech heavy people to Linux. This was years ago. The final few nails of Microsoft's coffin are being nailed as we speak. Not only because they are just fundamentally bad at innovation, but because they also sold out the United States to China. Billy boy is scared, and he should be.
- forinti 3y ago
  I managed to convince my mother-in-law to use Linux and drop Windows. But it seems that convincing the network guys at work is harder than convincing a retiree. Apparently it's easier to administer a Windows network than a Linux one.
  - layer8 3y ago
    There is no good replacement for Active Directory, by a large margin. It’s the single biggest factor that keeps Windows alive in the enterprise.
    - tonoto 3y ago
      Was that really a good thing? Active Directory in enterprise environments keep the hackers happy
      - trealira 3y ago
        I didn't know what the Active Directory is until now, although I found its Wikipedia page. Is it known for being insecure?
        layer8 3y ago
        Not really, in 2024. GP is presenting a caricature.
    - bhewes 3y ago
      In addition to Windows, I manage Ubuntu, MacOS and iOS via Azure Active Directory. I like Azure.
iforgotpassword 3y ago
I guess because the majority of Linux folks don't really care about making it a solid user experience for normies, and those that do so might have strong opinions on things that might not roll with everyone, especially coming from Windows (read: gnome). I've maintained an in-house distro for a couple years so I know the ins and outs of systemd, dbus, polkit, xorg and whatever crap is needed to run a desktop session, and how to track down what's broken if the system misbehaves in some way. So switching every machine I use to Linux wasn't really an extra burden. Ironically it made me switch to i3 as my WM and ditching a file manager, gvfs and other moving parts. I'm doing a lot of things in the terminal. I loathe complicated setups - less moving parts, less things that can break. But I'm fully aware that I'm a complete oddball here, and I don't think nor care whether the day of the Linux desktop will ever come. Unless maybe we're at a point where really absolutely everything runs in the cloud and people only need a browser. But at that point just get a Chromebook?
- bee_rider 3y ago
  The Free Software and Open Source ecosystems are, at their best, about communities putting together projects to serve their own needs and then generously sharing those solutions out. I think an easily discoverable UI for non-technical people is not a problem that many technical communities have. Anyone who does try to start that project is signing themselves up for a lot of complaints from outside the project, almost by definition. I don’t really see why anyone would do it. The Chromebook is probably the right way to go. I’d recommend them to my non-technical friends if they weren’t designed by an ad company. As it is, I have no idea, there legitimately doesn’t seem to be a good desktop OS for non-technical users anymore.
  - philistine 3y ago
    macOS !!
mejutoco 3y ago
I installed Linux for my parents and they use their laptop a lot more. I did no proselitizing.
overgard 3y ago
I think the end result is less people using the desktop overall (ie, just relying on tablets and phones), which in my opinion is a catastrophe since phones and tablets are generally consumption devices rather than creative devices (sorry, I'm not counting selfies or tiktoks), and we're slowly dumbing down the next generation.
earlone 3y ago
Yes agree. I started using Linux (Gentoo) as student 20 years ago to learn LKMs programming, and with my main Desktop being Windows currently, I give a new try to linux distros every year. I see Linux distros improve year after year, but they are still light years away from providing a good user experience. And even if I don't agree with many Windows 11 updates (like the cumulating number of services required to run user interfaces, the taskbar which can't be moved anymore, the bloatware by default and so on...), Windows still provides a better & smoother user experience overall. Even Desktop multitasking experience feels better engineered in Windows, probably because of a better Desktop processes timing.
- Solvency 3y ago
  How has had the entirety of the open source developer community not managed to make even a mediocre step forward in UI/UX of even the biggest Linux distro?l in 20 years? Hell, even Blender has made big strides and I thought that'd be impossible.
  - rocqua 3y ago
    Blender is unique in having a big set of users who are actually good at aesthetics professionally. A subset of that group wanted to contribute, and the technically minded were actually willing to let them. Most other open source projects have people behind them who don't put UX first, and who are suspicious, jealous, or plain disagree when people want to help with UX. This shouldn't be too surprising in a world led by people who value technical excellence most.
  - earlone 3y ago
    The bottleneck regarding UI/UX was (and is still) X11 / Xorg, with the obsolete client/server architecture inherited from a time when computers had no graphic card. Wayland has been in progress for some time now to replace X11 / Xorg, but it is still bugged to some extend, and driver support needs to be improved.
  - logtempo 3y ago
    I find it better than windows rn. Linux mint especially. I mean there is even a playstore-like "app" to install softwares
pjmlp 3y ago
Fully agree, around 2010 I made my peace with it never happening, and switched fully into Windows, using GNU/Linux either from a VM (VMWare/Virtual Box), or some server. Also managed to get hold of one of the last Asus netbooks (1215 B), that after all these years has finally given the ghost. Netbooks are now replaced by Chromebooks/Android systems that care about a full stack developer experience where the underlying Linux is a kind of implementation detail, Windows ships WSL (no need for VMWare/Virtual Box), and those that want UNIX proper have macOS.

I honestly think that Gnome is a big part of this. A lot of people very obviously and loudly like it, but since I've been giving developers the option to use KDE they've been a lot happier with it all.

littlestymaar 3y ago
GNOME2 was the apex of GNOME, fortunately MATE and Cinnamon are keeping its legacy alive.
fuzzy2 3y ago
Except they're two sides of the same coin. The underlying technology (software) is almost all the same. And it is not problem-free, unfortunately.
probably_satan 3y ago
Xfce is far better than Gnome and KDE to me personally. Gnome-shell is nice on a tablet though.

netsharc 3y ago

Yeah, Microsoft's got a huge majority of users captive and now they can do as they please, "Oh you don't like this obnoxious new 'feature'? Well what are you going to do about it?", like an abusive partner. If only there's some company with money and clout to offer an OS with the same level of user-friendliness... Too bad Google's product managers are just busy trying to advance their own careers, plus it's not like they respect users...

whaleofatw2022 3y ago
They are even worse on the OSS side. They'll push azure on everyone while shitting on the community that kept .NET alive between 2012-2019
trealira 3y ago
> If only there's some company with money and clout to offer an OS with the same level of user-friendliness... Legit question: do you think there will ever be a new commercial desktop operating system (not one that's given away for free) that isn't Windows or MacOS again in the next 30 years? Because Linux is free, and Windows is ubiquitous, and because you need a lot of hardware support and support for existing applications to be see usage, it seems hard for any new company to break into the market with something genuinely new. It seems like the way things are now are how they'll be for a long time. We'll just always use Linux, MacOS, or Windows, with superficial changes, I suppose. Or a BSD.
- netsharc 3y ago
  > Legit question: do you think there will ever be a new commercial desktop operating system... Nope, no one is willing to put up the money for a long term investment. If I had the billions, I'd fund an easily installable OS that can accept Windows hardware drivers (easier said than done...). Or the cheaper way would probably to fund a slick Linux distro that an average user isn't scared away, but I guess they already are slick enough nowadays? I installed a Manjaro KDE distro on a secondary PC a while ago, and on login it had the option of X11 or Wayland, but Wayland wouldn't work on my setup... Sigh, the average user doesn't care to learn about windowing system options, they just want to do their work.

probably_satan 3y ago

I've converted a handful of some of the least computer tech heavy people to Linux. This was years ago. The final few nails of Microsoft's coffin are being nailed as we speak. Not only because they are just fundamentally bad at innovation, but because they also sold out the United States to China. Billy boy is scared, and he should be.

forinti 3y ago
I managed to convince my mother-in-law to use Linux and drop Windows. But it seems that convincing the network guys at work is harder than convincing a retiree. Apparently it's easier to administer a Windows network than a Linux one.
- layer8 3y ago
  There is no good replacement for Active Directory, by a large margin. It’s the single biggest factor that keeps Windows alive in the enterprise.
  - tonoto 3y ago
    Was that really a good thing? Active Directory in enterprise environments keep the hackers happy
    - trealira 3y ago
      I didn't know what the Active Directory is until now, although I found its Wikipedia page. Is it known for being insecure?
      - layer8 3y ago
        Not really, in 2024. GP is presenting a caricature.
  - bhewes 3y ago
    In addition to Windows, I manage Ubuntu, MacOS and iOS via Azure Active Directory. I like Azure.

iforgotpassword 3y ago

I guess because the majority of Linux folks don't really care about making it a solid user experience for normies, and those that do so might have strong opinions on things that might not roll with everyone, especially coming from Windows (read: gnome). I've maintained an in-house distro for a couple years so I know the ins and outs of systemd, dbus, polkit, xorg and whatever crap is needed to run a desktop session, and how to track down what's broken if the system misbehaves in some way. So switching every machine I use to Linux wasn't really an extra burden. Ironically it made me switch to i3 as my WM and ditching a file manager, gvfs and other moving parts. I'm doing a lot of things in the terminal. I loathe complicated setups - less moving parts, less things that can break. But I'm fully aware that I'm a complete oddball here, and I don't think nor care whether the day of the Linux desktop will ever come. Unless maybe we're at a point where really absolutely everything runs in the cloud and people only need a browser. But at that point just get a Chromebook?

bee_rider 3y ago
The Free Software and Open Source ecosystems are, at their best, about communities putting together projects to serve their own needs and then generously sharing those solutions out. I think an easily discoverable UI for non-technical people is not a problem that many technical communities have. Anyone who does try to start that project is signing themselves up for a lot of complaints from outside the project, almost by definition. I don’t really see why anyone would do it. The Chromebook is probably the right way to go. I’d recommend them to my non-technical friends if they weren’t designed by an ad company. As it is, I have no idea, there legitimately doesn’t seem to be a good desktop OS for non-technical users anymore.
- philistine 3y ago
  macOS !!

mejutoco 3y ago

I installed Linux for my parents and they use their laptop a lot more. I did no proselitizing.

overgard 3y ago

I think the end result is less people using the desktop overall (ie, just relying on tablets and phones), which in my opinion is a catastrophe since phones and tablets are generally consumption devices rather than creative devices (sorry, I'm not counting selfies or tiktoks), and we're slowly dumbing down the next generation.

earlone 3y ago

Yes agree. I started using Linux (Gentoo) as student 20 years ago to learn LKMs programming, and with my main Desktop being Windows currently, I give a new try to linux distros every year. I see Linux distros improve year after year, but they are still light years away from providing a good user experience. And even if I don't agree with many Windows 11 updates (like the cumulating number of services required to run user interfaces, the taskbar which can't be moved anymore, the bloatware by default and so on...), Windows still provides a better & smoother user experience overall. Even Desktop multitasking experience feels better engineered in Windows, probably because of a better Desktop processes timing.

Solvency 3y ago
How has had the entirety of the open source developer community not managed to make even a mediocre step forward in UI/UX of even the biggest Linux distro?l in 20 years? Hell, even Blender has made big strides and I thought that'd be impossible.
- rocqua 3y ago
  Blender is unique in having a big set of users who are actually good at aesthetics professionally. A subset of that group wanted to contribute, and the technically minded were actually willing to let them. Most other open source projects have people behind them who don't put UX first, and who are suspicious, jealous, or plain disagree when people want to help with UX. This shouldn't be too surprising in a world led by people who value technical excellence most.
- earlone 3y ago
  The bottleneck regarding UI/UX was (and is still) X11 / Xorg, with the obsolete client/server architecture inherited from a time when computers had no graphic card. Wayland has been in progress for some time now to replace X11 / Xorg, but it is still bugged to some extend, and driver support needs to be improved.
- logtempo 3y ago
  I find it better than windows rn. Linux mint especially. I mean there is even a playstore-like "app" to install softwares

pjmlp 3y ago

Fully agree, around 2010 I made my peace with it never happening, and switched fully into Windows, using GNU/Linux either from a VM (VMWare/Virtual Box), or some server. Also managed to get hold of one of the last Asus netbooks (1215 B), that after all these years has finally given the ghost. Netbooks are now replaced by Chromebooks/Android systems that care about a full stack developer experience where the underlying Linux is a kind of implementation detail, Windows ships WSL (no need for VMWare/Virtual Box), and those that want UNIX proper have macOS.