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Is 60k bad? Pretty sure it's the average salary in the entire Europe.
by askonomm 3y ago
Is 60k bad? Pretty sure it's the average salary in the entire Europe.
- throwawaysleep 3y agoOnly making the avg salary after some fairly technical education is pretty bad.
- askonomm 3y agoAverage _software engineer_ salary.
- Hamuko 3y agoAs someone with a B.Eng in Information and Communications Technology, I don't really think the education part is that impressive really. Pretty sure there's a lot of programmers in my company that do not actually have an engineering degree. Meanwhile the nurses who did a 3.5-year program (as opposed to our 4-year engineering program) at the same campus probably make less than half of what I make.
- dgellow 3y agoThe average salary in France is around 42k€ a year.
- INTPenis 3y agoIt's pretty low for a software engineer, this is coming from a Swede. I know people inside Ubisoft and they have notoriously low salaries. I work in telco and we pay our developers more than Ubisoft does.
- neilkk 3y agoThere are millions of young people who dream of working in video games and very few who dream of writing software for a bank or a Telco. It seems to make sense that there should be a pay disparity.
- Hamuko 3y agoGaming salaries are shit because everyone wants to be in gaming. Why would you pay $100k to someone if there's like three other kids in line that would do it for $70k?
- throwaway13747 3y agoI know from people at another Ubisoft studio in the EU that they keep losing senior developers when they get tired of the crunch and go next door to write boring business software for 30-100% more money. Throwaway because my user name can be associated with said people. Edit: I wonder if HN could have an option to post without your user name for cases like this... maybe allow 3 anonymous posts per month per account? Or one anonymous post for every 10 posts with your user name?
- askonomm 3y agoNorthern Europe has some of the highest salaries in Europe, so that's not a good comparison. Looking from different resources online, it seems the average is around 60k. Spain, for example, has the average of being around 40k and Poland around 30k.
- INTPenis 3y agoI understand, sorry but I was thinking of all the frequent comparisons made with the bay area on this website. But true enough Scandinavia is at the top of european salaries, at least Stockholm. Not down south where I live in Malmö, because the cost of living is much lower.
- fredrikholm 3y agoAre you saying (in combo with first post) that the average SE is paid >50tkr at the company you work at, in Malmö?
- INTPenis 3y agoI work at a company in Stockholm, but I live in Malmö. The developers I work with, who all live in other parts of the country and are all senior, probably make over 50k a month. I don't know their exact salaries obviously.
- fredrikholm 3y agoSo, senior engineers who work in Sthlm make maybe more than the aforementioned 'low' salary. To add context, most juniors to mids make <50k in Malmö, which in annual USD would be closer to ~40k.
- reisse 3y agoI think your conversion rate is wrong. 50k SEK monthly is 600k SEK annually, which is only 60k USD.
- throwaway2990 3y agoSweden has such high taxes that Spotify pays like double the average salary to hire foreign talent so they don’t feel the loss of income from being taxed though the butt.
- isodev 3y agoWell, hopefully after living in Sweden for a bit, they discover how higher taxes result in all kinds of improved quality of life for everyone.
- janmo 3y ago60k EUR before taxes and healthcare + retirement deduction I suppose. So after taxes and mandatory deductions it is 45k USD, which not that much if you are in a city like Paris.
- privacyonsec 3y agoI live a Paris, with 45k net, you live very comfortably and have an active social life.
- walidthedream 3y agoPrivacyonsec let me laugh so you say you make 45k net in Paris and you live very comfortably ? That means ur gross is around 60k. 3700 a month in your pocket ie 4k usd. When rents are around 2k a month let me guess you live in a 30 square meter hole or your room sharing your flat or your living in a gritty suburb or dad & mum have you covered . When any decent car would cost you 300 € a month, telco bundle 100 €, 100 € energy minimum, add 200 € minimum of property charges if you own your flat. 250 € of food if you go to low class hard discount store, 50 euros transportation if you don’t own or leade car , that makes already 3000 euros a month of spending. Add various taxes and fees if you’re landlord, say 200 euro a month. 100 min for health care. You now have 400 euros left in you bank account left, I hope you don’t have any kid like most of parisians , other you go broke in no time. And I didn’t count anything Paris has to offer : restaurant costing 20 euros per person on average, cinema at 10 euros etc. France is being destroyed by privileged people or cheap people that thing they are virtually rich while in fact they are virtually poor.
- dheera 3y agoAverage salary isn't an excuse if it's unlivable. It's hard to live on 60K in Europe when a goddamn power cord costs 15 Euro
- dgellow 3y agoSorry but you’re mistaken. 60k€ in France or Germany is a decent salary. Power cords don’t cost 15€? What are you talking about? I see prices way below 10€
- gambiting 3y ago€2 at Aldi, I have no idea what the poster is talking about. €60k is a very decent salary.
- ilkke 3y agoPerhaps they mean an Apple cord
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoThe cheapest USB-C cable Apple sells is 25 Euros so even 15 Euros is cheap.
- dheera 3y agoOh I don't know, way back in 2005 and 2007 when I did internships in Europe, the cords at the local store always cost a lot. Even an RJ-45 cable for DSL cost 20 SF (about USD15 at the time) at the local electronics store.
- seszett 3y agoWhat currency is SF? I might be missing one of the non-Eurozone countries.
- paddim8 3y agoWhere do you live? Switzerland?
- laurentlb 3y agoWhen I applied to a Ubisoft studio in 2011, the recruiter sent me an email during the hiring process: > [...] we would like to move forward in the process. As you may know, our salaries in the games industry do not compare well with overall IT industry salaries; however, we can offer one of the most prominent development studios in the world [...] I don't have more information, but they seemed well aware their salaries were not competitive.
- ponector 3y agoNot competitive with other IT sectors. But within gaming industry where everyone is getting peanuts they are not that bad but with huge projects.
- ido 3y agoI know multiple people who work at Ubisoft Berlin, they are generally known to underpay compared to other game-dev jobs in the city.
- walidthedream 3y agoIf you get satisfied with a 60k gross salary as an engineer wherever you are in Europe you should maybe question yourself unless you’re full remote in a Bulgarian country side. Cars cost the same everywhere, same goes for flight tickets , electronics, top universities tuition, major food or fashion brands, etc etc.
- ilkke 3y agoLooks like you missed rent, healthcare and public transport in your list there. For anyone wondering how relevant is public transport, in Sydney I couldn't do anything without a car, in Vienna I can't find a good use for one.
- Hamuko 3y agoCars (especially accounting for total ownership costs), tuition and food definitely do not cost the same everywhere.
- walidthedream 3y agoOh yeah true I would welcome the opportunity to move in a country where the Starbucks coffee costs 2 dollars and a Mercedes cost 15k USD.
- rpigab 3y agoI dunno, it's kinda nice to get an engineering Master of Science equivalent for 600€ per year in a good public school (private school doesn't mean better school), with heavily subsided rent if you need it, then go to work and have zero debt, get social security, have kids and childcare is also subsidized, and you can't get fired without a reason, and when you do get fired you get a portion of your salary for months, which is so good that many people get fired on purpose. I get way less than 60k gross in France, but apart from the house that I had to buy kinda small because it's close to a big city, it's nice. Many people around me have it worse, and I'm not sure if it would be a great idea to give everyone around the globe the purchasing power of an average American.
- 3y ago
- dgellow 3y agoThe average in France is around 42k€ a year. 60k€ is perfectly decent compared to other professions. It’s also good but on the lower end for a non-senior software developer.
- eloisant 3y agoThat's the thing, in other countries software development is a high paying job. Not a "slightly above average" job.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago>in other countries software development is a high paying job Yeah, but those countries are relatively few. The US is an outlier. In most of western EU SW wages are only slightly above average. Outside of big tech of course, but big-tech employment is far from average.
- eloisant 3y agoIt doesn't really make sense to talk about an "average salary in the entire Europe" because you have really big discrepancies. You have high paying locations like Switzerland, Norway, UK, Ireland, Germany, etc, lowish locations like France, Italy, etc, and really low locations like Poland. Technically you could calculate an overall average but that number would be useless.
- isametry 3y agoExactly. In the EU alone, gross average income ranges around 5-fold from the lowest to the highest value. (1100€ in Bulgaria, 5400€ in Netherlands) Including non-EU countries as well makes the difference even more extreme (7000€ in Switzerland vs 450€ in Ukraine). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage#Maps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_b...