2 ms·

> Interviewing is a terrible way to screen candidates so.... how do you suggest companies hire candidates? purely through referrals, without any further screen

> Interviewing is a terrible way to screen candidates so.... how do you suggest companies hire candidates? purely through referrals, without any further screening?

kasey_junk 3y ago
Thomas is a long time and outspoken proponent of work sample hiring. Here is his current companies process https://fly.io/docs/hiring/hiring/ https://fly.io/docs/hiring/hiring/
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  This is not work sample - Oxide do work sample where they can take work you already completed. This is take-home test as described at least
  - tptacek 3y ago
    Using OPM.gov's definition: Work sample tests require applicants to perform tasks or work activities that mirror the tasks employees perform on the job. You can call them "take-home tests" if you want, but that term is more general; lots of take-homes aren't work samples (they're not work samples if they're abstract coding puzzles that have nothing to do with the real work, for instance).
    - dilyevsky 3y ago
      Ok sure, semantics aside, and not that i've seen Fly's take-home challenges, but how is it actually meaningfully different from zoom/in-person interviews in terms of being totally synthetic? Unless you're hiring for a junior role, it seems like isolated, pre-defined task is trivial part of the job... I like your "work day" challenge though.
lubujackson 3y ago
Honestly, why not? Obviously there needs to be SOME degree of vetting, but the way senior+ engineers are handled in the market is just absurd. The entire software engineering process is so closely tied to college classes with maybe a few years of professional work. All with the idea that "hiring the wrong person is terrible" but not considering that there may be thousands of developers that can effectively do the work. If software engineering was handled like most other jobs, your work experience and references would be like 70% of what are considered. Instead, resumes serve as little more than initial screens at best, with all the weight given to leetcode results, pet questions and system design questions about how you'd build Uber in 10 minutes. We act like its the 90s and literally everyone is new to the game. It's time to recognize the job has become a mature profession and we should treat it as such.

> Interviewing is a terrible way to screen candidates so.... how do you suggest companies hire candidates? purely through referrals, without any further screening?

kasey_junk 3y ago

Thomas is a long time and outspoken proponent of work sample hiring. Here is his current companies process https://fly.io/docs/hiring/hiring/ https://fly.io/docs/hiring/hiring/

dilyevsky 3y ago
This is not work sample - Oxide do work sample where they can take work you already completed. This is take-home test as described at least
- tptacek 3y ago
  Using OPM.gov's definition: Work sample tests require applicants to perform tasks or work activities that mirror the tasks employees perform on the job. You can call them "take-home tests" if you want, but that term is more general; lots of take-homes aren't work samples (they're not work samples if they're abstract coding puzzles that have nothing to do with the real work, for instance).
  - dilyevsky 3y ago
    Ok sure, semantics aside, and not that i've seen Fly's take-home challenges, but how is it actually meaningfully different from zoom/in-person interviews in terms of being totally synthetic? Unless you're hiring for a junior role, it seems like isolated, pre-defined task is trivial part of the job... I like your "work day" challenge though.

lubujackson 3y ago

Honestly, why not? Obviously there needs to be SOME degree of vetting, but the way senior+ engineers are handled in the market is just absurd. The entire software engineering process is so closely tied to college classes with maybe a few years of professional work. All with the idea that "hiring the wrong person is terrible" but not considering that there may be thousands of developers that can effectively do the work. If software engineering was handled like most other jobs, your work experience and references would be like 70% of what are considered. Instead, resumes serve as little more than initial screens at best, with all the weight given to leetcode results, pet questions and system design questions about how you'd build Uber in 10 minutes. We act like its the 90s and literally everyone is new to the game. It's time to recognize the job has become a mature profession and we should treat it as such.