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Terrible article. In Portugal if you don't attend the meetings you can get a sanction of some sort (or at least you used to): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug

Terrible article. In Portugal if you don't attend the meetings you can get a sanction of some sort (or at least you used to): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Laws_and_regulations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal#Laws_a... This is quite different to giving someone an information card. For what it's worth there is increasing problems in Portugal with drugs. The overdose rate is starting to really spike again, there was a good article somewhat recently about this which I can't find, but you can see the trend here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-deaths-in-portugal/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/911927/drug-overdose-dea...

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
> The overdose rate is starting to really spike again From 50 deaths skyrocketing up to 70 deaths. This is the kind of spike the US dreams about. The stats you link to do a pretty good job of countering the pORtIgaL iS ON dRUg FIrE narrative. When compared with the rest of Europe, Portugal has a fairly low incidence of drug deaths. So thanks for posting them.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  It's a significant spike at 40%. But my guess is that this is due to the market being flooded with ultra potent opioids right now. Decriminalisation can't really prevent that, unfortunately. Only legalisation and regulation will.
- martinald 3y ago
  That's not my point. The point is the trend is going the wrong way recently after dropping so sharply after decriminalization. I am/was in favour of that - it is clearly a healthcare problem; not a criminal justice problem. However, I think it is still a big and growing problem regardless of where you sit on that spectrum, which has sharply been brought into focus with fentanyl and other synthetic opioids (which are themselves a byproduct of 'the war on drugs' in many ways, but the genie is out of the bottle now with them). I found the article I was meaning to find - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-drugs-decriminalization-heroin-crack/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-dru...
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    It's possible to put the genie back in the bottle with legalisation, I think. Other than a very small minority I know of that actively seeks them out, most opioid addicts are using fentanyl and other microgram potency opioids because that just happens to be what's available. Which is directly because the production and distribution side of things is unregulated.
  - orwin 3y ago
    I think you gave the big part of the reason why,its fentanyl. I've heard that the quality of care decreased, but fentanyl would explain an increment in fatalities if the total consumption do not increase.
ptsneves 3y ago
It is not mandatory for consumption, but that is not the problem anyway. The problem is that actual crimes are done while under the influence and in that situation the court will give out mandatory participation in rehabilitation. If you fail to do so the court’s social services will advise the judge for other measures. If you think of it nobody bothers with alcohol consumption but if you have an accident under the influence of alcohol it is pretty reasonable the judge prescribes AAA participation, instead of just punishing you. Failure to do so can then lead to the judge finding you guilty on more severe charges like involuntary manslaughter or just plain contempt. Of course crimes related to heavy drugs are often much more severe so if you don’t play nice you will go to jail and not come out for some time. Portuguese prisons are also overbooked and known for being very miserable.
arp242 3y ago
> there was a good article somewhat recently about this which I can't find Perhaps this one? Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36638752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36638752 - Jul 2023 (638 comments)
lastdong 3y ago
> The overdose rate is starting to really spike again One of the issues is that when the number of drug addicts was significantly reduced, we saw investment in the programs being reduced year on year. This tells you the effort against drugs never ends. I believe this is now being re-evaluated by the Portuguese authorities (returning budget to these programs). It’s a lot more effort than one thinks to ensure the correct support at every stage.

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago

> The overdose rate is starting to really spike again From 50 deaths skyrocketing up to 70 deaths. This is the kind of spike the US dreams about. The stats you link to do a pretty good job of countering the pORtIgaL iS ON dRUg FIrE narrative. When compared with the rest of Europe, Portugal has a fairly low incidence of drug deaths. So thanks for posting them.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
It's a significant spike at 40%. But my guess is that this is due to the market being flooded with ultra potent opioids right now. Decriminalisation can't really prevent that, unfortunately. Only legalisation and regulation will.
martinald 3y ago
That's not my point. The point is the trend is going the wrong way recently after dropping so sharply after decriminalization. I am/was in favour of that - it is clearly a healthcare problem; not a criminal justice problem. However, I think it is still a big and growing problem regardless of where you sit on that spectrum, which has sharply been brought into focus with fentanyl and other synthetic opioids (which are themselves a byproduct of 'the war on drugs' in many ways, but the genie is out of the bottle now with them). I found the article I was meaning to find - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-drugs-decriminalization-heroin-crack/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-dru...
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  It's possible to put the genie back in the bottle with legalisation, I think. Other than a very small minority I know of that actively seeks them out, most opioid addicts are using fentanyl and other microgram potency opioids because that just happens to be what's available. Which is directly because the production and distribution side of things is unregulated.
- orwin 3y ago
  I think you gave the big part of the reason why,its fentanyl. I've heard that the quality of care decreased, but fentanyl would explain an increment in fatalities if the total consumption do not increase.

ptsneves 3y ago

It is not mandatory for consumption, but that is not the problem anyway. The problem is that actual crimes are done while under the influence and in that situation the court will give out mandatory participation in rehabilitation. If you fail to do so the court’s social services will advise the judge for other measures. If you think of it nobody bothers with alcohol consumption but if you have an accident under the influence of alcohol it is pretty reasonable the judge prescribes AAA participation, instead of just punishing you. Failure to do so can then lead to the judge finding you guilty on more severe charges like involuntary manslaughter or just plain contempt. Of course crimes related to heavy drugs are often much more severe so if you don’t play nice you will go to jail and not come out for some time. Portuguese prisons are also overbooked and known for being very miserable.

arp242 3y ago

> there was a good article somewhat recently about this which I can't find Perhaps this one? Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36638752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36638752 - Jul 2023 (638 comments)

lastdong 3y ago

> The overdose rate is starting to really spike again One of the issues is that when the number of drug addicts was significantly reduced, we saw investment in the programs being reduced year on year. This tells you the effort against drugs never ends. I believe this is now being re-evaluated by the Portuguese authorities (returning budget to these programs). It’s a lot more effort than one thinks to ensure the correct support at every stage.