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I mean, its not far off. The country has been in immense debt over freeing themselves from slavery. Economic violence is real, you undermine local markets then

I mean, its not far off. The country has been in immense debt over freeing themselves from slavery. Economic violence is real, you undermine local markets then make them dependent on your exports, hurting the local economy and resiliency.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Could a Haiti ag industry (people, land, systems) that isn’t interfered with support the domestic nutritional needs of the current population?
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago
  '"There's a long history in Haiti of groups like USAID flooding the market with rice and other imports," said Victor. "This is not what we need. We need real help and that means completely changing the agricultural system."' 'Paul O'Brien of Oxfam America says the lessons of the harm of flooding a country like Haiti with subsidized rice should have been learned a long time ago. '"The days are gone when we can throw up our hands in terms of unintended consequences; we know now what these injections can do to markets," he said. "The question we want asked is what is being done to guarantee long-term food security for Haitians."' '[...] there is plenty of malnutrition. 'Some 2.4 million Haitians — out of a population of nearly 10 million — cannot afford the minimum daily calories recommended by the World Health Organization.' 'But donors often sink more money into emergency aid than such long-term projects.' 'Before the 1970s, Haitians only ate rice once or twice a week, getting starch from other local staples like sorghum and manioc, Woolley said. 'Today, rice is a staple but often U.S.-subsidized rice costs less than locally grown crops. On Friday, a 55-pound bag of US rice cost about $36, compared with $60 for the same size sack of Haitian rice.' 'In the 1970s, fearing indigenous pigs could spread swine fever, the United States — in conjunction with USAID — moved to replace all of Haiti's hearty Creole pigs with pigs from Iowa. The end result was the fragile U.S. pigs often became sick, preferred expensive feed and had fewer litters.' '[Haitians need] cheap credit, cheaper fertilizer and more government aid, he said.' [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna35608836 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna35608836
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
oatmeal1 3y ago
Using the word "violence" the way you are is clearly newspeak; it's inflammatory and unhelpful.
- JaimeThompson 3y ago
  I believe the 2nd definition fits this use case. From dict.org 2. Injury done to that which is entitled to respect, reverence, or observance; profanation; infringement; unjust force; outrage; assault. [1913 Webster]
- analognoise 3y ago
  Um it’s violence and privilege to use famous examples of “Western” literature to make your point and it doesn’t consider the diverse heritage of learners. Could you please cease doing violence and not think those thoughts? (/s This is sarcasm - the second line obviously references Doublethink. The example is meant to point out how ridiculous it is that thought is being shut down by accusing people with an expanded/changed definition of violence)
anonporridge 3y ago
I don't disagree. But the broader point is that whenever you have a strong and weak entity interacting, you can always find a way to frame anything the stronger entity does as "violence". Not sharing your wealth and power? Violence by indirectly causing suffering with your hoarding. Sharing your wealth and power? Violence by harming the weaker entity's ability to take care of themselves and be independent. At the end of the day, some armchair critic is always going to accuse the stronger/wealthier party of violence, so accusations of such lose their meaning and people increasingly ignore the boy who cried wolf.
- tomrod 3y ago
  > whenever you have a strong and weak entity interacting, you can always find a way to frame anything the stronger entity does as "violence". Correct. While it's a bit crude term than the historical "inquitable", it accurately describes trade surpluses being lost to the weaker party compared to a more equal exchange. This is why BATNA is an important principle.
77pt77 3y ago
What happens if they just don't pay the debt? Is Fr*nce going to invade?
- diab0lic 3y ago
  Probably not but they’ll have a harder time finding capital the next time they need to borrow. It is generally unwise to default on debt if you think you may need to borrow again.
  - 77pt77 3y ago
    Their problems have crossed that line a long time ago.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
That dent was sold by France to Citibank in 1922 and paid off in 1947. I don’t understand why you are talking about this in the present tense.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Could a Haiti ag industry (people, land, systems) that isn’t interfered with support the domestic nutritional needs of the current population?

lo_zamoyski 3y ago
'"There's a long history in Haiti of groups like USAID flooding the market with rice and other imports," said Victor. "This is not what we need. We need real help and that means completely changing the agricultural system."' 'Paul O'Brien of Oxfam America says the lessons of the harm of flooding a country like Haiti with subsidized rice should have been learned a long time ago. '"The days are gone when we can throw up our hands in terms of unintended consequences; we know now what these injections can do to markets," he said. "The question we want asked is what is being done to guarantee long-term food security for Haitians."' '[...] there is plenty of malnutrition. 'Some 2.4 million Haitians — out of a population of nearly 10 million — cannot afford the minimum daily calories recommended by the World Health Organization.' 'But donors often sink more money into emergency aid than such long-term projects.' 'Before the 1970s, Haitians only ate rice once or twice a week, getting starch from other local staples like sorghum and manioc, Woolley said. 'Today, rice is a staple but often U.S.-subsidized rice costs less than locally grown crops. On Friday, a 55-pound bag of US rice cost about $36, compared with $60 for the same size sack of Haitian rice.' 'In the 1970s, fearing indigenous pigs could spread swine fever, the United States — in conjunction with USAID — moved to replace all of Haiti's hearty Creole pigs with pigs from Iowa. The end result was the fragile U.S. pigs often became sick, preferred expensive feed and had fewer litters.' '[Haitians need] cheap credit, cheaper fertilizer and more government aid, he said.' [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna35608836 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna35608836
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

oatmeal1 3y ago

Using the word "violence" the way you are is clearly newspeak; it's inflammatory and unhelpful.

JaimeThompson 3y ago
I believe the 2nd definition fits this use case. From dict.org 2. Injury done to that which is entitled to respect, reverence, or observance; profanation; infringement; unjust force; outrage; assault. [1913 Webster]
analognoise 3y ago
Um it’s violence and privilege to use famous examples of “Western” literature to make your point and it doesn’t consider the diverse heritage of learners. Could you please cease doing violence and not think those thoughts? (/s This is sarcasm - the second line obviously references Doublethink. The example is meant to point out how ridiculous it is that thought is being shut down by accusing people with an expanded/changed definition of violence)

anonporridge 3y ago

I don't disagree. But the broader point is that whenever you have a strong and weak entity interacting, you can always find a way to frame anything the stronger entity does as "violence". Not sharing your wealth and power? Violence by indirectly causing suffering with your hoarding. Sharing your wealth and power? Violence by harming the weaker entity's ability to take care of themselves and be independent. At the end of the day, some armchair critic is always going to accuse the stronger/wealthier party of violence, so accusations of such lose their meaning and people increasingly ignore the boy who cried wolf.

tomrod 3y ago
> whenever you have a strong and weak entity interacting, you can always find a way to frame anything the stronger entity does as "violence". Correct. While it's a bit crude term than the historical "inquitable", it accurately describes trade surpluses being lost to the weaker party compared to a more equal exchange. This is why BATNA is an important principle.

77pt77 3y ago

What happens if they just don't pay the debt? Is Fr*nce going to invade?

diab0lic 3y ago
Probably not but they’ll have a harder time finding capital the next time they need to borrow. It is generally unwise to default on debt if you think you may need to borrow again.
- 77pt77 3y ago
  Their problems have crossed that line a long time ago.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

That dent was sold by France to Citibank in 1922 and paid off in 1947. I don’t understand why you are talking about this in the present tense.