25 ms·
Power Metal: is it really about dragons? (2018)
- gnatolf 3y agoThis is lovely! Since I always struggle with the ton of subgenres, some lyric based clustering is as good as anything to separate genres. Maybe we should run this on all that has electric guitars...
- lukan 3y ago"some lyric based clustering is as good as anything to separate genres" I think melody and rhythm are kind of important, too (otherwise a minstrels verbal recitation could count as power metal). But it definitely is a good metric.
- gnatolf 3y agoI wonder whether bands are more consistent in style of play over their lifetime, as compared to lyrics or other 'metrics'. It's probably easy to find all types of variance/consistency. My hunch would be that the more specific and entrenched a genre is, the closer these bands stick to their styles (and lyrics).
- lukan 3y ago"My hunch would be that the more specific and entrenched a genre is, the closer these bands stick to their styles (and lyrics)." They usually also have the problem, that their fans often don't like them to change. They want more of what they know, but better. Not different (especially in entrenched genres). Turisas for example, a band making songs mainly about vikings. I watched them live a few years ago - was quite good, but the band made remarks that they do not take the whole viking thing that serious (nostalgic buisness they called it) and would rather play something else. And they did one song in the end, in a quite different style (sounded like futuristic metal) but the audience was not thrilled - they were there for viking and glorious battle metal. So this is what Turisas are still playing, this is what brings them money, but they have not made a new album in over 10 years, but how can you make a good album, with a theme you don't find that exiting anymore?
- powermetal 3y agoIf you want that, ideally you should spin up a new band name for a project thats too different in style from a band whose style you have already established. Its not that people resist change, thats how thrash metal bands changed into death metal slowly and the invention of death metal is highly celebrated. But it was a slow and organic change. Typically bands that have some sense about this tend to spin up a different name if they want to play something totally different from their existing band.
- lukan 3y agoIn general, for sure. Only some big bands have managed to change their style and have their fans follow them. For most a different band would make the most sense. And I am only guessing about Turisas, but they probably should have done so, but it was probably more comfortable to make money with the established hits and name. Starting something new is not easy, after all.
- necromantic 3y agoIf the musicians are already famous from one or other particular band, then they should easily pull up a strong fan following for their other projects too. Just look at how many people look up the large number of random projects of Speckmann even if say they had found out the band "Master" first.
- justforasingle 3y agoI found power metal because I was looking for a more positive sub-genre of metal. What I was listening to before often had ahrimanic themes - death, violence, satanism etc.
- Semaphor 3y agoI’m not big into power metal (I prefer death, violence and satanism ;)), but let me recommend you an extremely positive power metal band that I absolutely love: Fellowship from the UK https://fellowshipmetal.bandcamp.com/album/the-saberlight-chronicles https://fellowshipmetal.bandcamp.com/album/the-saberlight-ch...
- bogdan 3y agoI grew up on power metal and nowadays I mainly listen to two genres: black metal and classical music. One of the things they have in common is that I can't understand a word in either. I really appreciate that because I find lyrics in songs distracting and most of the time cringy.
- spindle 3y agoI'm the same. Fortunately for me, I don't understand Japanese, and there's some great Japanese power metal - e.g. Marge Litch and Alhambra.
- mikub 3y agoAlmost the same for me, It's either blackmetal, classic or some ambient which works best for me when I want to concentrate on something. But sometimes I still need to listen to some good old cheesy Powermetal, sing along and feel like I should start immediately to conquer the world to defeat all the evil that is out there. ;)
- aerhardt 3y agoI can't listen to music with vocals at work, but I still listen to power metal 20 years later in quite a few contexts - gym, car, walk, simply active listening. I can't argue with the quality of the lyrics being cringey though. I've always thought it's a combination of the genre being niche and being founded on a set of lyrical themes that are restrictive - and maybe particularly challenging -, and also, the fact that a lot of these bands aren't from English-speaking countries. The bands from anglo countries like Kamelot tend to write acceptable lyrics within the power metal context (Manowar lyrics are hilarious at times and arguably well-written, but they are not power metal IMO). There are some noteable exceptions to non-anglo bands with polished lyrics, like perhaps Nightwish or Blind Guardian, but a common occurrence otherwise is to find shitty English, which at least for me is an instant turnoff.
- feldrim 3y agoImpressive work. I believe Encyclopaedia Metallum[0] would be a better source for the corpus, though the noise rate would be higher as there are many one-song/single/demo album bands, along with bands making music in multiple genres in different eras in their lifetime. 0. https://www.metal-archives.com/ https://www.metal-archives.com/
- btown 3y agoThe ability to find lyrics on lyric sites would be a reasonable proxy for sufficient popularity, I’d imagine. On a semi-related note, when talking about large genre-specific corpuses, https://vgmdb.net https://vgmdb.net has a fascinating scope definition across all things game and animation adjacent, including both the massive doujin (fan-made) music scene and the full discographies of many j-pop artists and composers, all annotated by franchise adjacency with (often) full staff credits: https://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22321 https://vgmdb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22321 It’s a fascinating corpus and one I’d love to analyze deeply one day.
- hypercube33 3y agoFor metal lyrics the go to used to be dark lyrics but it never shows in search results.
- camel-cdr 3y agoEncyclopaedia Metallum is an amazing resource, it's also quite scrapable. I managed to quickly throw thogether a set of small bash scripts to crossreference the midgard [0] leaks with metal artists. [0] The midgard (Nazi online shop) sales record was leaked, including personal information, so I won't link it here
- hn_go_brrrrr 3y agoIs that cross-reference published anywhere?
- camel-cdr 3y ago
- DeathArrow 3y agoI listen to Power Metal only because it is the closest genre to classical Heavy Metal (Iron Maiden, Ozzy Osbourne,Motörhead, Judas Priest) and almost no band sings classical Heavy Metal anymore.
- pjgalbraith 3y agoThere's been a huge revival of traditional heavy metal over the last 10 or so years. Look up NWOTHM for a list of some of the bands.
- Semaphor 3y ago> almost no band sings classical Heavy Metal anymore. That’s just not true, at all. Just look for the "trad[itional]" genre. I don’t enjoy it, but there are a lot of releases there. edit: Or just combine heavy metal and either hard rock or thrash on something like RYM, that should also give you a lot of those. Here’s Hard Rock + Heavy Metal for the 2020s: https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/2020s/g:all,hard%2drock,heavy%2dmetal/ https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/2020s/g:all,hard%...
- dazzawazza 3y agoI'll seed you Seven Sisters (UK), Riot city (Can), Traveler (Can), Toledo Steel (UK), Road Wolf (Austria), Bullet (Swe), Crazy Lixx (Swe). Take those to BandCamp/Metal Archives and look for "bands like" these and you'll see there are hundreds of UK, Canadian and Swedish bands. There is also the ever awesome Jorn (Swe) still putting out amazing Heavy Metal. Hope that helps. No need to listen to power metal ;)
- tgv 3y ago> Bands from Spain ... have an average of more than 1600 words vocabulary > Country, Nr of bands > Spain, 1
- aerhardt 3y agoA pity, because there was a vibrant power metal scene here in the 90s and 2000s. They mostly sang in Spanish though.
- anthk 3y agoSpain had Basque speed metal bands, but not Power. Also there's Reno Renardo but it's an obvious parody of Metal, a la Nanowar.
- darkwater 3y agoBig Nanowar fan here, but I would not day they parody metal...I mean, they obviously do but at the same time they actually like metal. So, it's not your typical parody, it's more kind of an inside joke.
- anthk 3y agoThe same with Reno Renardo, obviouly they do tons of references to the most known bands.
- aerhardt 3y agoI can't tell from your comment whether you're saying that there were no power metal bands in the Basque Country, or more broadly in Spain... If it's the latter: there was absolutely a power metal scene in Spain. Avalanch, Warcry, Dark Moor (in the article) were power metal all the way and extremely prominent in the broader metal scene - they were some of the biggest metal bands of the early 2000s. Saratoga and Tierra Santa were not strictly power metal, but very closely adjacent (especially the latter, both lyrically and musically). There were plenty of smaller bands trying to make it in the space, too.
- agravier 3y agoOh hey Matt nice to see you around here. This post is popular, maybe release the code? :)
- iosonofuturista 3y agoI second this motion... I really want to apply this to stoner doom and really see if it's all about "bong" "wizard" "weed" "mammoths" or not!
- robin_reala 3y agoAh, another MWWB fan.
- anthk 3y agoOFC Gamma Ray is the least Power Metal band. Gamma Ray it's like blending Helloween and Pet Shop Boys. Still, a lot of albums from GR surpass Helloween. Yes, even the Keeper one.
- aerhardt 3y agoNot my favorite band by a stretch, but Gamma Ray is 100% power metal, and nothing in it reminds me remotely of Pet Shop Boys... If anything, it's the unshakeable Helloween influence that brings the melodic happy metal vibes.
- kriberg 3y agoThat's just the Kai Hansen doing his thing. He's also been quite active as a producer.
- anthk 3y agoYes and no. The first records are a genius mix blending power metal and synth like rhythms. I think there's a noticeable difference from the block of 'Heading for Tomorrow' until 'Insanity...' and 'The Land of the Free'. Then there's a pure power metal band.
- tandr 3y agoI don't know if there are any bands that stay in a single narrow style forever. And I don't know if Gamma Ray could fit just one style too - there is Power, Glam, Speed Metal in their songs. Just a personal bit -- Gamma Ray's "Real World" "got me", or "clicked" at some (rather dark) point of my life, and made me look on life's complicated absurdities from a bit different - lighter - angle. If anything, I am grateful for that.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- aerhardt 3y agoOnly in Hacker News would I find a post about data science and power metal. Geeky af, but rad!
- hypercube33 3y agoI think it's mutually inclusive since the interests are shared by some - I've found a bunch of business intelligence nerds at metal festivals running stats on everything they can get data for. For example the metal cruise festival I go on has a group that made their own bands on board tracking app and they release stats on who wants to see what bands and if people marked later that they enjoyed it, etc.
- tekla 3y agoHave you literally never been on a metal forum?
- scop 3y agoI only recently discovered Blind Guardian. Typically listened to thrash, rarely power metal. Man, what excellence. Brilliant vocals, great choruses, distinct and unique sense of melody both on guitar and vocals. Something I really love about them is that vocals, guitars, and drums all have very prominent and distinct parts. In many bands I feel like one instrument will often dominate and the band becomes boring. I.e. great vocals, no guitar solos or great guitar but could care less for vocals. When I started listening to Blind Guardian and heard a chorus for the first time, I thought “Dang that was awesome, but I bet the guitar solo will suck or not exist”…and MAN was I wrong. Brilliant vocals and brilliant guitar work. And then that drumming is just always going. My life is 2% better for having found them.
- ykonstant 3y agoBlind Guardian carried me through high school on the backs of dragons.
- scop 3y agoGoosebumps reading that. On the back of dragons!
- NamTaf 3y agoIn fairness, early BG very much aligns more with speed metal, which is a fairly close sibling to thrash. It was that vector that got me into them more than my latter appreciation for power metal in all its bombastic soaring-vocal glory.
- powermetal 3y agoEuropean/german power metal bands tend to be more speed metal based. American power metal retained closeness to heavy metal more. I would recommend him to try out bands like Helstar and Jag Panzer next.
- gpderetta 3y agoEarly Savatage (one of my favourite bands) are a rare occurrence of American Power Metal.
- wodenokoto 3y agoArticle says source code to be released. Since it is from 2018, I assume it already has been released. Anyone have a link?
- toastedwedge 3y agoI couldn't find it, either. I looked around their Github and Twitter going back to 2018. I would wager it was a case of life getting busy, unfortunately, as happens to us all.
- 082349872349872 3y agoSo is there anyone else doing concept albums like Nightwish' "Endless Forms Most Beautiful"?
- tmoravec 3y agoMany of the bands. Sticking to power metal and just from the top of my head: Rhapsody of Fire and related bands, Avantasia, Blind Guardian, Sabaton, Kamelot, Iced Earth, Gloryhammer, Ayreon and related bands (not quite power metal but the overlap in audience is large I believe)... I would even guess that in this genre, more albums are concept than not.
- mynegation 3y agoMy favourite band: Dream Theater. Their (arguably) best album is a concept album, they have a few. Also Insomnium’s latest “Anno 1696” is a concept album.
- agubelu 3y agoI'd like to use this thread to spread the word of our lord and savior Powerwolf. I discovered them just over two years ago and they immediately became my favorite band: their mix of themes, aesthetic and impressive vocals are amazing. Plus they're a ton of fun live and sound just as good :)
- tmtvl 3y agoI dunno, I got one of their albums on Google Play Music (before Google killed it) and it just didn't grab me the way Hammerfall or Grand Magus did. The album I picked up is 'Blessed And Possessed', so I dunno, maybe I just picked up their 'Demolition', to make a Judas Priest parallel. Which of their albums would you recommend to start with?
- hn_go_brrrrr 3y agoI really enjoy Blessed and Possessed, so I don't think your analogy holds, unfortunately. If you want to give them another try, Sacrament of Sin is worth a listen.
- generationP 3y agoThe Sacrament of Sin is their best; almost every song on that one is great. It's one of the rare examples of a band that was boring and bland at first and then greatly improved. Call of the Wild is a close second. On their other albums I like 1-2 tracks each.
- fallinditch 3y agoFor those who like metal and are open to more experimental and avant garde, progressive styles I highly recommend the 2023 albums by Thantifaxath and Blut Aus Nord. But the best metal album of 2023 (surely! IMHO) is Terrasite by Cattle Decapitation. These bands are producing complex, esoteric, heavy music, no dragons.
- LesZedCB 3y agoterrasite is a phenomenal nomination for AotY 2023.
- pavel_lishin 3y agoI haven't listened to those, but if we're tossing out recommendations for interesting metal, Igorrr is my go-to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZzYxGZ7Hmc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZzYxGZ7Hmc And you can't forget their Chicken Sonata: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFxDOV6IwHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFxDOV6IwHk
- awaythrow999 3y agoYou can't kill the Metal -- TenaciousD
- aerhardt 3y agoI've commented on a lot of tangential topics in this thread, but regarding the article, I find the clustering really impressive. I know a lot of these bands and going by feel I broadly agree with a lot of the groupings. Perhaps it's not exhaustive or perfect, for example I would intuit Blind Guardian to be much closer to Demons & Wizards, because both of those bands share lyricists and themes, but the analysis otherwise nails many of the tuples. For example, Helloween - Gamma Ray - Masterplan or Edguy - Avantasia, where both groupings' bands shared lyricists. I also agree with other not-so-obvious groupings like Kamelot - Angra - Stratovarius or Falconer - Dream Evil - Hammerfall - Nocturnal Rites. Kudos to the author!
- RajT88 3y agoBig metal fan here, as are some of my friends. The Power Metal genre is less popular here in the US for sure. For example as great as the playing is for bands like Rhapsody my friends and I always found them too silly to get into. Some other bands make the cut of course. But why this resistence to the genre in general? My working theory is one of culture: Songs about dragons and shit probably resonate a lot better if you grew up in a places filled with castles and shit. That is simply not the US and very much is Europe.
- coffeebeqn 3y agoGood question - especially since everything else in that realm is quite popular in the US. D&D, lord of the rings etc. Maybe it’s considered more cheesy here? I remember thinking it was kind of cheesy growing up in Europe and listening to various types of metal
- a_gnostic 3y agoTennessee, Texas, Minnesota, and California have castles. They pop up all over the U.S. if you look hard enough. Some of them are fassades, and some of them are 100% legit imported organic homegrown European.
- RajT88 3y agoThere was one where I used to live: https://historicelgin.com/pratts-castle https://historicelgin.com/pratts-castle It was largely unknown in town. Contrast with trips I have taken to Europe (yes even work trips) where randomly I would come across a castle. For example in Swansea near the train station there was a castle a couple blocks from a TGI Friday's. It is different over there!
- gs17 3y agohttps://castlesy.com/ https://castlesy.com/ has a big list of "castles" in the US.
- powermetal 3y agoIts nothing to do with the USA. Older metal genres are in general quite niche today. Death metal and black metal is ubiquitous everywhere. Power metal and speed metal are relatively obscure these days.
- generationP 3y ago> For people who might not know, Rhapsody of Fire broke into in two bands, one keeping the original name and the other becoming Rhapsody. Ehm, this is not what happened. In 2006 Rhapsody became Rhapsody of Fire to avoid some trademark dispute. Then they split around 2009, though the main chunk is still called Rhapsody of Fire whereas the spinoff is called Luca Turilli's Rhapsody.
- Bahamut 3y agoThe trademark dispute was with the Rhapsody streaming service - I don't think it was ever announced, but I suspect the streaming service paid them money to change their name since the band definitely came first.
- mongrelion 3y agoI remember when this happened. I tried googling a bit but I couldn't find quickly enough an article that mentions Rhapsody, the streaming service, as the other party in the trademark dispute. However, I do remember the whole thing when it happened because I had just discovered the band. Feels like ages ago
- max_sendfeld 3y agoSimilar post in this context: Symphonic Metal Bands: Nerdiness vs Kickassery — A statistical analysis https://medium.com/@WolframHempel_82303/symphonic-metal-bands-nerdiness-vs-kickassery-a-statistical-analysis-7c6ec4064286 https://medium.com/@WolframHempel_82303/symphonic-metal-band...
- at_a_remove 3y agoI have to say, despite my closest approach to power metal being doom/stoner rock, I am very much enjoying everyone geeking out on their preferred niche genre. No matter where you look, there's history to learn and jargon to master.
- chipuni 3y agoYes. Yes, it is really about dragons.
- golergka 3y agoI know that unique word count is not a perfect way to measure "sophistication" of the lyrics, but I still find it funny that the "best" metal band has less than a half of Aesop Rock's vocabulary given how some metal fans look down on hip-hop. (That's not an attack on them, I'm a huge fan of both).
- yumraj 3y agoNot Power Metal, but I thought I’ll take my chances. Any recommendations for someone who loves Rammstein, despite only knowing 2-3 words in German? I haven’t found many while searching for industrial metal.
- dmsayer 3y agostatic-x, especially the older stuff.
- tmtvl 3y agoSecond the recommendation for Static-X, though there ain't any new stuff, RIP Wayne. Unfortunately Industrial ain't my wheelhouse, so I can't say much beyond that.
- arp242 3y agoOomph! is generally the first thing people recommend. It's been a very long time since I listed to this type of music and I don't know what they've been up to recently ("recently" meaning "last 20 years"), but the Sperm and Defekt albums from the 90s are pretty good. I also really liked Pitchshifter at the time, especially the first few albums (later they switched styles a bit, starting with the pitchshifter.com, which is also pretty good). It's a bit different from Rammstein from what I recall, but can't hurt to try.
- crtified 3y agoPeople not familiar with metal music may find it interesting to learn that actor Sir Christopher Lee - or, Lord of the Rings's "Saruman" - was an active part of the power metal scene in the later stages of his life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lee#Music_career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lee#Music_career
- smrq 3y ago>The least [metal words] are [...] girl I hate to say it but this made me laugh. I know it's not what the author is saying, but it certainly aligns with my experience of the gender ratio at metal shows... I listen to a lot of genres that end up with shows full of bearded dudes with crossed arms, nodding (myself included, to be fair). But metal shows tend to be #1.