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It depends on which products we're talking about. China now is like Japan was in the 1970s-80s. Japan had a reputation for making cheap, shoddy products, but it

It depends on which products we're talking about. China now is like Japan was in the 1970s-80s. Japan had a reputation for making cheap, shoddy products, but it was actually rapidly moving up in quality.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
China still has a surplus of rural residents to make work for, I don't see quality being a non-problem until that labor pool dries up (which should be too long). For example, Chinese-made Toyota is still much lower quality than Japan-made Toyota, mostly because the former still relies on less automation than the latter since SOE majority JV partners are tasked by the party more with creating jobs than with creating quality product.
- DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
  > China still has a surplus of rural residents to make work for It also produces more STEM PhDs than any other country, and now leads the world in rankings of high-quality research output. > Chinese-made Toyota is still much lower quality than Japan-made Toyota Yet Chinese-made and -designed automotive batteries are among the most advanced in the world, and China is quickly becoming a leader in the development and production of electric cars. Again, it very much depends on which products we're talking about. China produces both cheap junk and world-leading products.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    > It also produces more STEM PhDs than any other country, and now leads the world in rankings of high-quality research output. And the rest of the world still benefits from that output as much as China (emigration shot up during/after covid). > Yet Chinese-made and -designed automotive batteries are among the most advanced in the world, and China is quickly becoming a leader in the development and production of electric cars. Battery production isn't really something you can get villagers to do alone. Otherwise, the quality of Chinese cars is pretty consistent across brands (so so, China's chabuduo culture), but it doesn't matter much because auto shops/repairs are still pretty affordable.
    - DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
      > Battery production isn't really something you can get villagers to do alone. You seem to think that China is still a backward agrarian society. > Otherwise, the quality of Chinese cars is pretty consistent across brands Quality varies immensely. China has never manufactured internationally competitive internal-combustion-engine cars. It basically leads the world now in electric cars. > China's chabuduo culture This is just getting into the realm of cultural stereotyping. Every country has its own version of "good enough" (which is all that 差不多 means), and China also has a long tradition of extremely fine craftsmanship (just think of the fact that fine porcelain dishes are referred to as "China").
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        > > Battery production isn't really something you can get villagers to do alone. > You seem to think that China is still a backward agrarian society. No, the party wants people in jobs, but battery production doesn't allow for that, it has no choice but to be heavily automated. China optimizes for work, except that isn't possible, then they get quality through automation. > Quality varies immensely. China has never manufactured internationally competitive internal-combustion-engine cars. It basically leads the world now in electric cars. The bodies are similarly made in a BYD EV than a Toyota or Hyundai ICE built in China. Having ridden in a few, they felt just as flimsy. > This is just getting into the realm of cultural stereotyping. Every country has its own version of "good enough" (which is all that 差不多 means), and China also has a long tradition of extremely fine craftsmanship (just think of the fact that fine porcelain dishes are referred to as "China"). I mean, I get it, you want to say this is a stereotype, except when it happens for real, then its just something I should accept and not comment on. China does have a long tradition of craftsmanship, for sure, but when people want to make money, they optimize for that heavily. They do what they must to produce at the price that will survive in a very competitive cost-sensitive market. For example, quality in a flat renovation suffer because you hired guys who low balled the price, and they cheaped out on materials and finish (chabuduo!), but you are already complicit in that because you went for the lowest price (and if you went for a higher price, you'd probably still get scammed anyways).

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

China still has a surplus of rural residents to make work for, I don't see quality being a non-problem until that labor pool dries up (which should be too long). For example, Chinese-made Toyota is still much lower quality than Japan-made Toyota, mostly because the former still relies on less automation than the latter since SOE majority JV partners are tasked by the party more with creating jobs than with creating quality product.

DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
> China still has a surplus of rural residents to make work for It also produces more STEM PhDs than any other country, and now leads the world in rankings of high-quality research output. > Chinese-made Toyota is still much lower quality than Japan-made Toyota Yet Chinese-made and -designed automotive batteries are among the most advanced in the world, and China is quickly becoming a leader in the development and production of electric cars. Again, it very much depends on which products we're talking about. China produces both cheap junk and world-leading products.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  > It also produces more STEM PhDs than any other country, and now leads the world in rankings of high-quality research output. And the rest of the world still benefits from that output as much as China (emigration shot up during/after covid). > Yet Chinese-made and -designed automotive batteries are among the most advanced in the world, and China is quickly becoming a leader in the development and production of electric cars. Battery production isn't really something you can get villagers to do alone. Otherwise, the quality of Chinese cars is pretty consistent across brands (so so, China's chabuduo culture), but it doesn't matter much because auto shops/repairs are still pretty affordable.
  - DiogenesKynikos 3y ago
    > Battery production isn't really something you can get villagers to do alone. You seem to think that China is still a backward agrarian society. > Otherwise, the quality of Chinese cars is pretty consistent across brands Quality varies immensely. China has never manufactured internationally competitive internal-combustion-engine cars. It basically leads the world now in electric cars. > China's chabuduo culture This is just getting into the realm of cultural stereotyping. Every country has its own version of "good enough" (which is all that 差不多 means), and China also has a long tradition of extremely fine craftsmanship (just think of the fact that fine porcelain dishes are referred to as "China").
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      > > Battery production isn't really something you can get villagers to do alone. > You seem to think that China is still a backward agrarian society. No, the party wants people in jobs, but battery production doesn't allow for that, it has no choice but to be heavily automated. China optimizes for work, except that isn't possible, then they get quality through automation. > Quality varies immensely. China has never manufactured internationally competitive internal-combustion-engine cars. It basically leads the world now in electric cars. The bodies are similarly made in a BYD EV than a Toyota or Hyundai ICE built in China. Having ridden in a few, they felt just as flimsy. > This is just getting into the realm of cultural stereotyping. Every country has its own version of "good enough" (which is all that 差不多 means), and China also has a long tradition of extremely fine craftsmanship (just think of the fact that fine porcelain dishes are referred to as "China"). I mean, I get it, you want to say this is a stereotype, except when it happens for real, then its just something I should accept and not comment on. China does have a long tradition of craftsmanship, for sure, but when people want to make money, they optimize for that heavily. They do what they must to produce at the price that will survive in a very competitive cost-sensitive market. For example, quality in a flat renovation suffer because you hired guys who low balled the price, and they cheaped out on materials and finish (chabuduo!), but you are already complicit in that because you went for the lowest price (and if you went for a higher price, you'd probably still get scammed anyways).