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Scientists extract images directly from brain
- ram1024 18y agohas to be the scariest thing i've read all year
- robg 18y agoDon't be scared. If you're ever placed in an fMRI with scenes of the crime, just start recalling your childhood home or Snow White. And for godsakes don't start remembering the crime.
- wheels 18y ago"I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!"
- tc 18y agoWhen this kind of technology replaces keyboards, mice, and touch screens, do you think that mainstream audiences might begin to appreciate the value in knowing exactly what the software on your personal devices does, and which master that software serves? I would never put so much as my private SSH keys on a closed source machine that pulls updates in the background or a device on which a third party is root (iPhone, G1). I certainly can't imagine plugging my brain into any such creature.
- jodrellblank 18y agoEver since I read the story of writing a backdoor in the unix login prompt, then writing that change into the compiler so the login prompt code looks clean, then writing that change into the running compiler, so the compiler code looks clean, but the running compiler will backdoor itself or the login prompt, I've had the feeling that the best bet is not to trust as far as possible and not to worry as far as possible. Smart people will always be able to outsmart me, stupid people with power or desirables will always be able to coerce me into lowering my standards.
- mechanical_fish 18y agoThe story you're referring to is Ken Thompson's Reflections on Trusting Trust: http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html
- dangoldin 18y agoDamn - This Account Has Exceeded Its CPU Quota Can anyone summarize or is it basically what it sounds like? How accurate is it?
- arram 18y agoHere's the article: Scientists extract images directly from brain <image> "Researchers from Japan’s ATR Computational Neuroscience Laboratories have developed new brain analysis technology that can reconstruct the images inside a person’s mind and display them on a computer monitor, it was announced on December 11. According to the researchers, further development of the technology may soon make it possible to view other people’s dreams while they sleep. The scientists were able to reconstruct various images viewed by a person by analyzing changes in their cerebral blood flow. Using a functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) machine, the researchers first mapped the blood flow changes that occurred in the cerebral visual cortex as subjects viewed various images held in front of their eyes. Subjects were shown 400 random 10 x 10 pixel black-and-white images for a period of 12 seconds each. While the fMRI machine monitored the changes in brain activity, a computer crunched the data and learned to associate the various changes in brain activity with the different image designs. Then, when the test subjects were shown a completely new set of images, such as the letters N-E-U-R-O-N, the system was able to reconstruct and display what the test subjects were viewing based solely on their brain activity. For now, the system is only able to reproduce simple black-and-white images. But Dr. Kang Cheng, a researcher from the RIKEN Brain Science Institute, suggests that improving the measurement accuracy will make it possible to reproduce images in color. “These results are a breakthrough in terms of understanding brain activity,” says Dr. Cheng. “In as little as 10 years, advances in this field of research may make it possible to read a person’s thoughts with some degree of accuracy.” The researchers suggest a future version of this technology could be applied in the fields of art and design — particularly if it becomes possible to quickly and accurately access images existing inside an artist’s head. The technology might also lead to new treatments for conditions such as psychiatric disorders involving hallucinations, by providing doctors a direct window into the mind of the patient. ATR chief researcher Yukiyasu Kamitani says, “This technology can also be applied to senses other than vision. In the future, it may also become possible to read feelings and complicated emotional states.” The research results appear in the December 11 issue of US science journal Neuron."
- sidsavara 18y agoAlas the account is suspended. Basically, they had this experiment where they showed the subjects 400 12x12 (I think) pixel images of letters and measured various things in their brain. They used (most likely) neural nets and machine learning to draw conclusions about what was going on, and then they showed the subjects a series of NEW images that were not in the training set, measured the brain activity, and they were able to display a graphic that had white, grey and black pixels that closely resembled the white on black lettering that they had trained it on. They were not exact pictures, but kind of like fuzzy images that you could see the whiter areas were were the letters were, and the darker areas in the images were aslo where the background was. Interesting stuff, but I think a far cry from the reading people's dreams they believe is possible in the future.
- arram 18y agoInteresting stuff, but I think a far cry from the reading people's dreams they believe is possible in the future. Why? They've established the basic principle. All it needs now is refinement. Have you ever seen a picture of the first transistor?
- kirse 18y agoThey've established the basic principle. All it needs now is refinement. This "basic principle" is no different when they do other MRIs that can detect patterns in brain activity (specific to one individual). The computers aren't doing any interpretation of brain activity here, just recognizing what it has been preprogrammed to to recognize. What you're proposing is that we build a recognition database of every single brain pattern and its correlating image. Damn, what kind of computer does that remind you of? Oh yea - the human brain! Not only that, but each individual has unique brain patterns, so this "computer" would have to be able to interpret a wide variety of signals. We're so far off from understanding the brain that this isn't happening, ever.
- liuliu 18y agoYou lead the topic to a very big question. If you think here computer is not doing any interpretation, what you actually say is computer learning methods don't mean computer can think. In this article, scientists do make computer do some "interpretation" because the training data and test data are different. (NEW images and reconstruct). People here have much more to do to fulfill the goal of "reconstructing high resolution, color image", but the problem is not computers do think or not.
- arram 18y agoThis might be the most exciting science news I've ever read. The implications are breathtaking.
- jimbokun 18y agoI can think of a lot of negative implications if this technology progresses the way they think it will. Can you imagine how excited governments will be about being able to "read the terrorists' minds" with this new toy? Are there any good implications? The "get images directly from the artists brain" doesn't sound too exciting to me, compared to the potential for 1984 style chicanery.
- ars 18y agoThey took the images from the brain, but they might not have gotten it from the mind - it may have come for circuitry associated with the eyes, rather that the circuity associated with thinking. I would like to see if they could read images if a person just thought about them, rather than actually saw them.
- arram 18y agoIt would have been lame if they had gotten the information from the neurons in the retina, but the article says they took the readings from the cerebral visual cortex. I'm pretty sure that it's used both for processing vision and thinking about images.
- robg 18y agoNot thinking about. That far back is a reconstruction of the data compression that happens in the retina. Attention can shift activation there slightly, but there's little abstraction from the retinal image.
- robg 18y agoExactly. The visual system produces a very stable activation pattern, relative to other senses and multidimensional objects. The noise inherent in those other systems is probably the best protection of our inner privacy. There simply isn't a code to be read because there's little systematicity from one moment, or person, to the next. The visual system is as good as it gets and even then only when you're looking at a prescribed object. In other words, ignore the PR about downloading thoughts and dreams. We can decode some stuff from fMRI activity patterns but we're soon swamped by noise, even when using machine learning techniques. The data just isn't there. It's like trying to predict the weather two weeks from now. The system is inherently noisy.
- robg 18y agoFor instance, here's a seminal paper predicting which category (faces, place, object) was going to be recalled from studied pictures and a second or two before it was actually recalled: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/310/5756/1963.pdf?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=Polyn&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/310/5756/1963.pdf?maxt... Still, that's a big difference from predicting (or mindreading) the particular item. And here's a good review of that and similar work: http://polyn.com/struct/NormEtal06_TICS.pdf http://polyn.com/struct/NormEtal06_TICS.pdf
- rms 18y agohttp://www.cell.com/neuron/abstract/S0896-6273%2808%2900958-6 http://www.cell.com/neuron/abstract/S0896-6273%2808%2900958-... is the abstract. Some anonymous soul will probably Scribd the paper at some point in the future also.
- arjunlall 18y agoIts on Scribd http://www.scribd.com/doc/8857889/Visual-Image-Reconstruction-from-Human-Brain-Activity-using-a-Combination-of-Multiscale-Local-Image-Decoders http://www.scribd.com/doc/8857889/Visual-Image-Reconstructio...
- deleted 18y ago[deleted]
- grouchyOldGuy 18y agoThis is both awesome and creepy. That makes it aweseepy or creepsome.
- Tichy 18y agoI don't think it is reading pictures from the brain at all. The way I understand it, it can only recognised pictures the computer has learned before. As an analogy, imagine your eye lid twitches every time somebody mentions George Bush. The computer would then learn that when your eye lid twitches, you are thinking about George Bush. Not very exciting imo. I think there was an experiment with a cat where they actually generated an image from what fell on the cat's retina. THAT was scary to me.
- kirse 18y agoI think there was an experiment with a cat where they actually generated an image from what fell on the cat's retina. The only study I've ever seen on this has been based on simply grabbing the image off the reflection of the eye. I can't imagine this actually involved hooking up a cat's visual cortex to some sort of interface, the sheer processing power required for that sort of visual information processing is unfathomable. If not, link me!
- Tichy 18y agoJust googled this: http://www.arthurmag.com/magpie/?p=395 http://www.arthurmag.com/magpie/?p=395 don't know if it is the same experiment I read about, and no time for more googling ;-)
- joeyo 18y agoThat's the one. They were recording in the lateral geniculate nucleus, however (ie more similar to the representation coming straight off the retina). More here: http://www.stanley.bme.gatech.edu/research_topics_vision.html#Overview http://www.stanley.bme.gatech.edu/research_topics_vision.htm...
- ars 18y agoThey did do that, it was in Scientific American in an article about the eyes. They they did not take it from the visual cortex though, but rather from neurons coming from the retina. The retina has various layers and they took a look at what each layer does.
- randrews 18y agoTo get past the creepiness aspect, let's say that you can only view what someone else is seeing. That's still pretty useful. Imagine that you make this high enough resolution that it's like watching TV, and then small enough that it'll fit in a helmet. Then, you could record what someone is seeing and hearing, without having a cameraman around. It would be a cool way to, for example, watch a football play from the eyes of the quarterback. It might be a very interesting way to make movies.
- Network_Punk 18y agoIf you're using a helmet, might as well use a camera instead... Would be far cheaper, and could always use eye-tracking to move the camera (or even just zoom and pan to give the effect of looking)
- astine 18y agoYou wouldn't get any of the effects of blurred vision, crossed eyes, or some such. Also, eyes are far better cameras than anything you'd fit on a helmet.
- ecuzzillo 18y agoIn some ways. If you recorded just what the rods and cones detected, you'd actually get a really small, really high-resolution area in the center (the fovea) with the rest at extremely much lower resolution. So if you recorded what the quarterback saw, but without the post-processing done by the brain to cache some of the things recently glanced at, it might be pretty hard to watch.
- bd 18y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Days_%28film%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Days_%28film%29
- paulgb 18y agoI think a big problem with this would be the eye's saccades. From what I understand, the brain relies on the fact that it controls what the eye is focused on to interpret the signal.
- jsmcgd 18y agoSupposedly you can hear what people are thinking by sampling the nervous signals sent to the larynx. http://www.thinkartificial.org/machine-interfaces/audeo-neckband-neural-interface/ http://www.thinkartificial.org/machine-interfaces/audeo-neck...
- whacked_new 18y agoThis is quite different than the OP's image reconstruction, and it isn't really what one is thinking (i.e. in your head). You need to consciously send motor commands to your vocal chord for the system to pick up your "thoughts." Essentially, you complete the entire speech process (from thoughts to motor signals), but the device completes the final step, rather than your vocal box.
- light3 18y agoProtoss voice: "psi limit exceeded, require more cpu quota"
- gscott 18y agoOr a summery of your life from your eyes,leaving out the bad parts of course - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364343/plotsummary http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364343/plotsummary
- vaksel 18y agoshouldn't be long now until we can put imagery directly into the brain
- fbailey 18y agobrilliant and they used a very old mac for it!
- mattmaroon 18y agoIf my wife ever acquires this technology I am screwed.
- ShardPhoenix 18y agoIn the long term, this has great potential for improving communication - imagine being able to visualize something and show it to other people instantly, rather than having to try to draw it or put it into words. For example, it could greatly speed up teaching if both the student and teacher were equipped with an advanced version of this device, since the teacher could immediately see and easily correct any mistaken visualizations the student had. It could be the human-to-human equivalent of going from 56k to broadband.
- dmoney 18y ago"This technology can also be applied to senses other than vision..." Sweet, it could be used to make music without having to learn an instrument.
- jpwagner 18y agoa-ha discovered this technology years ago to make their video "take on me"
- utnick 18y agoI wish I lived a couple thousand years from now. I think mankind is really going to be able to do some great things once we understand the brain fully.