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> If programming ever gets easy it means you're not seeking out new challenges. programming is the act of writing code, it should absolutely get easy. I think

> If programming ever gets easy it means you're not seeking out new challenges. programming is the act of writing code, it should absolutely get easy. I think you meant software development rather than programming.

simonw 3y ago
Yeah, I mean software development. I don't find the semantic distinction between that and programming particularly interesting myself - why write code if you're not doing that do develop software?
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  Because you might have architects specifying exactly what needs to be programmed, so the software development part is mostly done.
  - simonw 3y ago
    In which case you need to get yourself promoted to be an architect in addition to a programmer.
  - eska 3y ago
    The idea that you can dream up architectures but not implement them and expect anything worthwhile to come out reeks of inexperience.
    - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
      no one said said, stop chasing strawmen.
  - imtringued 3y ago
    Waterfall is dead.
  - al_borland 3y ago
    What’s this like? The architects I work with throw together a shitty flow chart that is very high level, say, “here it is,” and then I need to figure out the other 90% to make it work. I basically ignore everything they give me, because it’s completely useless and lacks all understanding of what we’re trying to do. I then give them something that works, and if they want to update their flowchart to reflect reality, that’s up to them… they never do. They also tell me, “this is the payload your API needs to accept,” and ignore the fact they half of what they are sending has never and will never be used by anything. It’s just needless complexity I add to get them to stop having meetings about it. Are architects supposed to actually give me something I can work with and make my life easier? I’ve never experienced this, but I work in a very dysfunctional organization.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  To me it's the difference between building a road and urban planning.
ben_w 3y ago
Even with just programming, I'd agree with what simonw wrote. Over my life, I've done Commodore 64/BBC/REAL/Visual BASIC, C/C++, IDL, python, bash, Java, PHP, ObjC, Swift, and JS, all of which have their own "right way" as they have different abstractions. Even just with those last three, the "right way" has changed significantly since I first started using them — used to be of vital importance to understand manual memory management while asynchronous processes could usually be ignored, now it's mostly the other way around (and the other process may be on a different computer on the other side of the planet, let alone a different core).
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  maybe I'm just super smart but I don't have that difficulty and I've been doing this for 25+ years now. At some point in your career the challenge has to stop being about the mechanical aspect of programming and become about larger, more holistic, concerns.
  - samatman 3y ago
    You're defining programming down to "the part of programming which beginners have trouble with, that eventually gets easy", and using this to make some tautological point which didn't need to be made. What's the point of that?
    - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
      I defined it quite clearly and it wasn't that > programming is the act of writing code, it should absolutely get easy. If you can't come at me with an acceptance of what I mean when I say programming then go away, your dishonesty is not my problem.

simonw 3y ago

Yeah, I mean software development. I don't find the semantic distinction between that and programming particularly interesting myself - why write code if you're not doing that do develop software?

master-lincoln 3y ago
Because you might have architects specifying exactly what needs to be programmed, so the software development part is mostly done.
- simonw 3y ago
  In which case you need to get yourself promoted to be an architect in addition to a programmer.
- eska 3y ago
  The idea that you can dream up architectures but not implement them and expect anything worthwhile to come out reeks of inexperience.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    no one said said, stop chasing strawmen.
- imtringued 3y ago
  Waterfall is dead.
- al_borland 3y ago
  What’s this like? The architects I work with throw together a shitty flow chart that is very high level, say, “here it is,” and then I need to figure out the other 90% to make it work. I basically ignore everything they give me, because it’s completely useless and lacks all understanding of what we’re trying to do. I then give them something that works, and if they want to update their flowchart to reflect reality, that’s up to them… they never do. They also tell me, “this is the payload your API needs to accept,” and ignore the fact they half of what they are sending has never and will never be used by anything. It’s just needless complexity I add to get them to stop having meetings about it. Are architects supposed to actually give me something I can work with and make my life easier? I’ve never experienced this, but I work in a very dysfunctional organization.
PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
To me it's the difference between building a road and urban planning.

ben_w 3y ago

Even with just programming, I'd agree with what simonw wrote. Over my life, I've done Commodore 64/BBC/REAL/Visual BASIC, C/C++, IDL, python, bash, Java, PHP, ObjC, Swift, and JS, all of which have their own "right way" as they have different abstractions. Even just with those last three, the "right way" has changed significantly since I first started using them — used to be of vital importance to understand manual memory management while asynchronous processes could usually be ignored, now it's mostly the other way around (and the other process may be on a different computer on the other side of the planet, let alone a different core).

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
maybe I'm just super smart but I don't have that difficulty and I've been doing this for 25+ years now. At some point in your career the challenge has to stop being about the mechanical aspect of programming and become about larger, more holistic, concerns.
- samatman 3y ago
  You're defining programming down to "the part of programming which beginners have trouble with, that eventually gets easy", and using this to make some tautological point which didn't need to be made. What's the point of that?
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    I defined it quite clearly and it wasn't that > programming is the act of writing code, it should absolutely get easy. If you can't come at me with an acceptance of what I mean when I say programming then go away, your dishonesty is not my problem.