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"Few people buy a K processor who aren’t interested in overclocking and tweaking." The opposite is true: Most people who buy a 'K' CPU dont do any tweaking, I w

by Sweepi 3y ago

"Few people buy a K processor who aren’t interested in overclocking and tweaking." The opposite is true: Most people who buy a 'K' CPU dont do any tweaking, I would bet a majority does not even activate things like XMP. The 'K' SKUs are 1) The highest SKU in the Linup in a given Class 2) They are faster then the non-'K' SKUs out of the box.

crote 3y ago
> I would bet a majority does not even activate things like XMP I highly doubt that. XMP is pretty much mandatory to get even remotely close to the intended performance. Without XMP your DDR4 memory isn't going beyond 2400MHz - but you almost have to try to find a motherboard, memory, or CPU which can't run at 3200MHz or even higher. It has all been designed for speeds like that, it's just not part of the official DDR4 spec. It's less critical with DDR5, but you're still expected to enable it.
- paulmd 3y ago
  nevertheless, both AMD and Intel refuse to warranty processors operated outside of the spec, including when done via XMP/Expo. AMD has gone so far as to add an e-fuse in recent generations that permanently marks processors that have been operated outside the official spec. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/amds-new-threadripper-chips-have-a-hidden-fuse-that-blows-when-overclocking https://www.extremetech.com/computing/amds-new-threadripper-... As much as enthusiasts would like this to be "normalized" - from the perspective of the vendor it is not, they are very clear that this is something they do not cover. And it will become more and more of a problem as generations go forward - electromigration is happening faster and faster (sometimes explosively, in the case of AMD). But it is quite difficult to get a gamer to understand something when their framerate depends on not understanding it. https://semiengineering.com/uneven-circuit-aging-becoming-a-bigger-problem/ https://semiengineering.com/uneven-circuit-aging-becoming-a-... https://semiengineering.com/3d-ic-reliability-degrades-with-increasing-temperature/ https://semiengineering.com/3d-ic-reliability-degrades-with-... https://semiengineering.com/mitigating-electromigration-in-chip-design/ https://semiengineering.com/mitigating-electromigration-in-c... > GD-106: Overclocking AMD processors, including without limitation, altering clock frequencies / multipliers or memory timing / voltage, to operate beyond their stock specifications will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even when such overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking AMD processors, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability. > GD-112: Overclocking memory will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even if such overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer or motherboard vendor. Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking memory, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to RAM/hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    I wonder if XMP is typically enabled by reviewers or on marketing slides.
    - paulmd 3y ago
      it definitely is, yes to both, for both CPU brands, including first-party marketing. There is always a giant "overclocking voids warranty" footnote on those slides/decks, but... there is often not a "at max supported speed" bar or anything either... It is a scummy little area of technical marketing, it's even in first-party marketing still. I think a lot of ink has been spilled over some real trivial/dumb shit but at least don't lead off showing your product running in an out-of-spec state unless it's clear that's what is doing on. Fabric overclocking is suuuuper normalized on the AMD side too and it has the same problem. It's higher voltages, and a lot of those "24/7 safe" voltages aren't. On the order of years, under heavy load (not idled down) they do wear out. I strongly feel like the absolute performance difference is not worth messing around with it anymore. Run ECC at the max supported clock and be done with it. Memory events go into event viewer/dmesg.

by Sweepi 3y ago

crote 3y ago

> I would bet a majority does not even activate things like XMP I highly doubt that. XMP is pretty much mandatory to get even remotely close to the intended performance. Without XMP your DDR4 memory isn't going beyond 2400MHz - but you almost have to try to find a motherboard, memory, or CPU which can't run at 3200MHz or even higher. It has all been designed for speeds like that, it's just not part of the official DDR4 spec. It's less critical with DDR5, but you're still expected to enable it.

paulmd 3y ago
nevertheless, both AMD and Intel refuse to warranty processors operated outside of the spec, including when done via XMP/Expo. AMD has gone so far as to add an e-fuse in recent generations that permanently marks processors that have been operated outside the official spec. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/amds-new-threadripper-chips-have-a-hidden-fuse-that-blows-when-overclocking https://www.extremetech.com/computing/amds-new-threadripper-... As much as enthusiasts would like this to be "normalized" - from the perspective of the vendor it is not, they are very clear that this is something they do not cover. And it will become more and more of a problem as generations go forward - electromigration is happening faster and faster (sometimes explosively, in the case of AMD). But it is quite difficult to get a gamer to understand something when their framerate depends on not understanding it. https://semiengineering.com/uneven-circuit-aging-becoming-a-bigger-problem/ https://semiengineering.com/uneven-circuit-aging-becoming-a-... https://semiengineering.com/3d-ic-reliability-degrades-with-increasing-temperature/ https://semiengineering.com/3d-ic-reliability-degrades-with-... https://semiengineering.com/mitigating-electromigration-in-chip-design/ https://semiengineering.com/mitigating-electromigration-in-c... > GD-106: Overclocking AMD processors, including without limitation, altering clock frequencies / multipliers or memory timing / voltage, to operate beyond their stock specifications will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even when such overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking AMD processors, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability. > GD-112: Overclocking memory will void any applicable AMD product warranty, even if such overclocking is enabled via AMD hardware and/or software. This may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer or motherboard vendor. Users assume all risks and liabilities that may arise out of overclocking memory, including, without limitation, failure of or damage to RAM/hardware, reduced system performance and/or data loss, corruption or vulnerability.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  I wonder if XMP is typically enabled by reviewers or on marketing slides.
  - paulmd 3y ago
    it definitely is, yes to both, for both CPU brands, including first-party marketing. There is always a giant "overclocking voids warranty" footnote on those slides/decks, but... there is often not a "at max supported speed" bar or anything either... It is a scummy little area of technical marketing, it's even in first-party marketing still. I think a lot of ink has been spilled over some real trivial/dumb shit but at least don't lead off showing your product running in an out-of-spec state unless it's clear that's what is doing on. Fabric overclocking is suuuuper normalized on the AMD side too and it has the same problem. It's higher voltages, and a lot of those "24/7 safe" voltages aren't. On the order of years, under heavy load (not idled down) they do wear out. I strongly feel like the absolute performance difference is not worth messing around with it anymore. Run ECC at the max supported clock and be done with it. Memory events go into event viewer/dmesg.