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So ideally, we should disable hyper threading to mitigate security issues and now also disable turbo mode to mitigate memory corruption issues. Maybe we should
by Ochi 3y ago
So ideally, we should disable hyper threading to mitigate security issues and now also disable turbo mode to mitigate memory corruption issues. Maybe we should also disable C states to avoid side-channel attacks and disable efficiency cores to avoid scheduler issues... and at some point we are back to a feature set from 20+ years ago. :P
- bee_rider 3y agoIMO it is worth noting that the “turbo mode,” as you call it, seems to be an overlock that some motherboards do by default. Not the stock boost frequencies. The hyperthread and c-state stuff, eh, if you want to run code that might be a virus you will have to limit your system. I dunno. It would be a shame if we lost the ability to ignore that advice. Most desktops are single-user after all.
- blibble 3y agoturbo boost is an advertised feature of the chip these chips that have been specially binned because they are supposedly stable at those frequencies (within an envelope set by intel) if intel can't get it to work they shouldn't be selling these chips at all
- bee_rider 3y agoUnless I misread the blog post, there doesn’t seem to be any issue with the stock turbo behavior.
- alwayslikethis 3y agoProvided enough cooling, a chip that can boost to its turbo frequency for a few seconds should also run stably at that frequency indefinitely. Nowadays these boost clocks are so high that there is often not much gained by pushing any further.
- dist-epoch 3y agoIntel should police their own ecosystem.
- ajross 3y agoThey have, in the past. People (including posters here) absolutely freaked out about clock-locked processors and screamed about the needless product differentiation of selling "K" CPUs at a premium. People want to overclock. Gamers want to see big numbers. If gamers don't do it their motherboard vendors will. It's not a market over which Intel is going to have much control, really. Note that you don't, in general, see this kind of silly edgelord clocking in the laptop segments.
- dist-epoch 3y agoOverclocking is ok. Out of the box default overclocking is not, this aspect should be policed.
- ajross 3y agoFWIW, there's no evidence that this is an "out of the box default" configuration on any of this hardware. Almost certainly these are users who clicked on the "Mega Super Optimizzzz!!!" button in their BIOS settings. And again, overclocking support on gaming motherboards is a feature that consumers want, and will pay for. So of course the vendors are going to provide it.
- rygorous 3y agoOodle maintainer here, we had two people that hit the issue offer to run some experiments for us. Neither were doing any overclocking before and both tried numerous things including resetting to BIOS defaults and also updating their BIOS (there was a known [to Intel] issue affecting some ASUS boards that had been fixed in a BIOS update in spring of 2023, and we were asked to rule it out.) This issue doesn't affect every such machine, but both people affected by the issue that consented to run tests for us still had the issue reproduce after flashing BIOS to current and with BIOS default settings for absolutely everything. Among the settings enabled by default on some boards: current limit set to 511 amps (...wat), long duration power limit set to 350W (Intel spec: 125W), short duration power limit also set to 350W (Intel spec: 253W), "MultiCore Enhancement" which is extra clock boosting past what the CPUs do themselves set to "Auto" not "Off", and some others.
- jnxx 3y ago> The hyperthread and c-state stuff, eh, if you want to run code that might be a virus you will have to limit your system. So, you are trusting all web pages you view? Because these are unknown code running on your box which probably has some beefy private data.
- Wowfunhappy 3y agoI know some people browse the web while gaming, but I don't. For the gaming use case, I legit want a toggle that says "yes, all the code I'm running is trusted, now please prioritize maximum performance at all costs." For all I care this mode can cut the network connection since I don't do multiplayer. I imagine people doing e.g. heavy number crunching might want something similar.
- bee_rider 3y agoI run noscript and try to be selective about which pages I enable.
- jrockway 3y agoRemember that you run a lot of untrusted code on your single-user desktop through Javascript on websites. Javascript can do all those side channel attacks like Spectre and Meltdown.
- bee_rider 3y agoThere are almost certainly unmitigated Spectre-style bugs hiding in modern hardware. People who don’t block JavaScript by default are impossible to protect anyway.
- VyseofArcadia 3y agoMaybe you do, but some of us use NoScript[0] and whitelist sites we trust. I'm not affiliated with NoScript. I just think it's insane that we run oodles of code to display web pages. [0] https://noscript.net/ https://noscript.net/
- Workaccount2 3y agoUsing no-script made me realize how unchained the Internet has become. Sites with upwards of 15 different domains all running whatever JS they want on your machine. Totally insane.
- secondcoming 3y agoOr just disable overclocking.
- ajross 3y agoWhy is this downvoted? That's exactly what's happening here. The affected devices are being overclocked, and the instructions at the end of the linked support document detail how to find the correct limits for your CPU and set them in your BIOS.
- sandworm101 3y agoI think it is because overclocking has become so normal that it is an expected feature on most chips. Being told to disable it is like being told to disable the supercharger on your new Ferrari: you are no longer getting what you thought you had paid for.
- crazygringo 3y agoIs that true? I thought the entire premise of overclocking was that it's not officially supported and it may break things. The whole point is that you're not paying for it and it's entirely at-risk. Because if you do want a higher level of guaranteed performance, you do need to pay for a faster chip (if it exists).
- Kluggy 3y agoCPU manufacturers certainly hold the line you stated but motherboard venders have jumped over the line and now sell motherboards that overlock for the end user entirely transparently. It’s fair for the end user who bought a motherboard that promises a higher clock speed to expect that clock speed.
- crazygringo 3y agoDo these motherboards explicitly provide a warranty that covers not just damage from overclocking but also CPU errors? If you can provide links, I'd be curious to see what guarantees they make. "What's fair" depends very specifically on what language they use.
- vondur 3y agoIt seems like problems occur from different firmware from the various motherboard manufacturers. I have a motherboard with a Ryzen 7950x and it would randomly not boot. I'd have to remove the battery from the system, let it fully reset, and then it would work again. Finally an update to the firmware fixed that bug.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- whoisthemachine 3y agoGood, fast, cheap. Choose two.
- paulmd 3y agohaha, knew it wouldn't take long for the AMD fanboys to get winding up on how awful this is gonna be. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39479081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39479081 Somehow people think that it's a strawman, but people like parent comment actually think and post like this lol
- rkagerer 3y agoRight, when they still knew how to make reliable hardware instead of cramming in features that aren't fully thought out and come with questionable tradeoffs to hit the bleeding edge.
- NikkiA 3y agoTBH if we'd stopped at coppermine or tualatin and focused entirely on making the software better, it probably would be a better world.