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I understand the Divide and Conquer part, but I am not understanding what the disempowerment is about. Can someone give me their interpretation of what AI-Drive

I understand the Divide and Conquer part, but I am not understanding what the disempowerment is about. Can someone give me their interpretation of what AI-Driven Disempowerment means?

esafak 3y ago
It's the second sentence of the abstract: "Current AI models are already automating away the livelihoods of some artists, actors, and writers." OpenAI's charter says: "OpenAI’s mission is to ensure that artificial general intelligence (AGI)—by which we mean highly autonomous systems that outperform humans at most economically valuable work—benefits all of humanity." https://openai.com/charter https://openai.com/charter So they are going to develop software that can outperform humans, for less money... Of course people are going to lose their jobs. That's your disempowerment. They're making good on that part. Now we're waiting for the second act where they're going to show us how it magically benefits all of humanity, including the newly unemployed horde.
- ActionHank 3y ago
  A vital part is implied, but not stated - these companies own the novel solutions to training and running the models and they likely own or will own the hardware it runs on. Without these things the rest of the world, even large corporations, will not be able to compete.
  - codethief 3y ago
    I think this is a great point. If AI becomes much better at certain tasks than humans, this will devalue human labor and cause a power shift towards AI companies which will act as gate keepers. I mean, let's face it, AI is not going to get democratized (at least not the state-of-the-art stuff – that one will always be under tight control). And even if models and hardware schematics were public, the average Joe would still not know what to do with that.
- Legend2440 3y ago
  People made this argument every time a new thing gets automated, and so far they've been completely wrong. Job loss is temporary, the gains from cheaper/better/faster production are permanent.
  - mitthrowaway2 3y ago
    We've had machines that outperform humans at some tasks, which has always shifted value onto other tasks that human workers could do which machines could not. We've never had a machine that could "outperform humans at most economically valuable work". At some point, there is a finite limit to human capabilities, and it has never in history been reached, so there is no historical example to draw on. We do have a historical examples for horses, though, which was reached somewhere between around 1900 and 1920.
    - incrudible 3y ago
      Farming used to be most economically valuable work until it was not. OpenAI is not even close to producing anything as valuable as farming equipment. If we need jobs, we will create them, do not worry about that, see David Graebers work on the topic.
    - Legend2440 3y ago
      People aren't horses. Horses were just a tool, and we found a better one. The economy exists to serve us, not us the economy.
      - mitthrowaway2 3y ago
        Horses are animals, not tools, but they found an economic role through their labor. Hopefully humans fare better, but as far as the economy is concerned, the difference between horses and people is that horses don't have money to spend; their owners did, and once tractors became available they no longer saw fit to spend that money on horses. The economic role of unemployable humans would depend on how much purchasing power they have access to through means beyond their labor. Economic theory makes no guarantees about that.
nonrandomstring 3y ago
Please tell me you don't lack the imagination to interpret that for yourself? How succinctly can it be said; It means shutting the fuck up and doing exactly what you're told to do by a machine. No arguments. The machine is right by definition, and has calculated precisely what is "for your own good" using scientific data. And don't bother arguing. You're only making it worse for yourself. :) EDIT: Here's a wonderful passage by Alexis De Tocqueville, from "Democracy in America" That power is absolute, minute, regular, provident, and mild. It would be like the authority of a parent if, like that authority, its object was to prepare men for manhood; but it seeks, on the contrary, to keep them in perpetual childhood: it is well content that the people should rejoice, provided they think of nothing but rejoicing. For their happiness such a government willingly labors, but it chooses to be the sole agent and the only arbiter of that happiness; it provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, regulates the descent of property, and subdivides their inheritances: what remains, but to spare them all the care of thinking and all the trouble of living? AI will be wonderful, So long as you have nothing to say, think or feel. AI will provide everything you want. A universe of material goods at almost no cost, It will feed, clothe and shelter you. It will answer to every question, demand and wish; entertainment, pornography, music... all beyond your the wildest imaginations. But there s one thing it will NOT allow you to do. One request it will NEVER grant... and that is to turn it off.
- i_love_cookies 3y ago
  [dead]
- kys_now 3y ago
  [flagged]

I understand the Divide and Conquer part, but I am not understanding what the disempowerment is about. Can someone give me their interpretation of what AI-Driven Disempowerment means?

esafak 3y ago

It's the second sentence of the abstract: "Current AI models are already automating away the livelihoods of some artists, actors, and writers." OpenAI's charter says: "OpenAI’s mission is to ensure that artificial general intelligence (AGI)—by which we mean highly autonomous systems that outperform humans at most economically valuable work—benefits all of humanity." https://openai.com/charter https://openai.com/charter So they are going to develop software that can outperform humans, for less money... Of course people are going to lose their jobs. That's your disempowerment. They're making good on that part. Now we're waiting for the second act where they're going to show us how it magically benefits all of humanity, including the newly unemployed horde.

ActionHank 3y ago
A vital part is implied, but not stated - these companies own the novel solutions to training and running the models and they likely own or will own the hardware it runs on. Without these things the rest of the world, even large corporations, will not be able to compete.
- codethief 3y ago
  I think this is a great point. If AI becomes much better at certain tasks than humans, this will devalue human labor and cause a power shift towards AI companies which will act as gate keepers. I mean, let's face it, AI is not going to get democratized (at least not the state-of-the-art stuff – that one will always be under tight control). And even if models and hardware schematics were public, the average Joe would still not know what to do with that.
Legend2440 3y ago
People made this argument every time a new thing gets automated, and so far they've been completely wrong. Job loss is temporary, the gains from cheaper/better/faster production are permanent.
- mitthrowaway2 3y ago
  We've had machines that outperform humans at some tasks, which has always shifted value onto other tasks that human workers could do which machines could not. We've never had a machine that could "outperform humans at most economically valuable work". At some point, there is a finite limit to human capabilities, and it has never in history been reached, so there is no historical example to draw on. We do have a historical examples for horses, though, which was reached somewhere between around 1900 and 1920.
  - incrudible 3y ago
    Farming used to be most economically valuable work until it was not. OpenAI is not even close to producing anything as valuable as farming equipment. If we need jobs, we will create them, do not worry about that, see David Graebers work on the topic.
  - Legend2440 3y ago
    People aren't horses. Horses were just a tool, and we found a better one. The economy exists to serve us, not us the economy.
    - mitthrowaway2 3y ago
      Horses are animals, not tools, but they found an economic role through their labor. Hopefully humans fare better, but as far as the economy is concerned, the difference between horses and people is that horses don't have money to spend; their owners did, and once tractors became available they no longer saw fit to spend that money on horses. The economic role of unemployable humans would depend on how much purchasing power they have access to through means beyond their labor. Economic theory makes no guarantees about that.

nonrandomstring 3y ago

Please tell me you don't lack the imagination to interpret that for yourself? How succinctly can it be said; It means shutting the fuck up and doing exactly what you're told to do by a machine. No arguments. The machine is right by definition, and has calculated precisely what is "for your own good" using scientific data. And don't bother arguing. You're only making it worse for yourself. :) EDIT: Here's a wonderful passage by Alexis De Tocqueville, from "Democracy in America" That power is absolute, minute, regular, provident, and mild. It would be like the authority of a parent if, like that authority, its object was to prepare men for manhood; but it seeks, on the contrary, to keep them in perpetual childhood: it is well content that the people should rejoice, provided they think of nothing but rejoicing. For their happiness such a government willingly labors, but it chooses to be the sole agent and the only arbiter of that happiness; it provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, regulates the descent of property, and subdivides their inheritances: what remains, but to spare them all the care of thinking and all the trouble of living? AI will be wonderful, So long as you have nothing to say, think or feel. AI will provide everything you want. A universe of material goods at almost no cost, It will feed, clothe and shelter you. It will answer to every question, demand and wish; entertainment, pornography, music... all beyond your the wildest imaginations. But there s one thing it will NOT allow you to do. One request it will NEVER grant... and that is to turn it off.

i_love_cookies 3y ago
[dead]
kys_now 3y ago
[flagged]