3 ms·

Interestingly enough the same terror of political correctness seems to take center stage at Mozilla. But then it seems much less so at places like Microsoft or

by jorvi 3y ago

Interestingly enough the same terror of political correctness seems to take center stage at Mozilla. But then it seems much less so at places like Microsoft or Apple. I wonder if there’s a correlation with being a tech company that was founded in direct relation to the internet vs. being founded in relation to personal / enterprise computing, and how that sort of seeds the initial culture.

hersko 3y ago
Is Microsoft really better? Remember this[1] bizarre intro during Microsoft Ignite? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBRtucXGeNQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBRtucXGeNQ
- titanomachy 3y ago
  The "land acknowledgement" part is somewhat common in the Pacific Northwest. The "stating my appearance, dress, and race" is just bizarre. My most charitable interpretation is that they're trying to help visually impaired people to imagine what the speakers look like. Perhaps there are visually impaired users here who could comment on whether that's something they'd find helpful?
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    You can always do described video, so this is just awkward and sloppy.
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  It's cringy, but it's harmless.
renegade-otter 3y ago
Or perhaps it's Google's hiring process - they are so obsessed with Leetcode-style interviews, they do not vet for the actual fit.
- skinkestek 3y ago
  If it was just leetcode I think they would have gotten someone who was politically incorrect enough to point it out.
  - pantalaimon 3y ago
    Like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%27s_Ideological_Echo_Chamber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%27s_Ideological_Echo_Ch...
    - skinkestek 3y ago
      Yes. That was 2017. I am sure the response to that case made smart people avoid sticking their necks out. For me it probably was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I was in the hiring pipeline at that point and while I doubt that they would have ended up hiring me anyway, I think my absolute lack of enthusiasm might have simplified that decision.
      - dekhn 3y ago
        It was a dark time. It generated so much internal controversy (many googlers agreed with Damore) that Sundar had to cut his vacation short, and an interest group managed to get the "company-wide chat" about it cancelled because they said they were at risk of physical harm. memegen and plus were a mess for months. People argued (as they do here) about the semantics of what he said, and what his underlying thinking about women was, whether "the science" was valid, etc. People saying smart things would get yelled down, and people saying dumb things would get upvotes. And vice versa. You probably made the right choice. Google had already been in decline at that point, but it was clear that Sundar was no leader, just somebody Larry Page appointed to maintain the peace between his lieutenants so the engine could keep printing money.
    - faeriechangling 3y ago
      I honestly think that incident helped make the type of people who would have the nerve to stick their neck out and say "This is racist" avoid Google like the plague. Sundar absolutely had to fire Damore because he came out with the arguments like that women are too neurotic for high stress jobs. The thing is even Damore's more reasonable points were ignored and Google's ideological echo chamber only strengthened.
mozempthrowaway 3y ago
I’d imagine Google’s culture is more Mao-ist public shaming. Here at Mozilla, we like Stalin. Go against the orthodoxy? You’re disappeared and killed quickly. We have hour long pronoun training videos for onboarding; have spent millions on DEI consultants from things like Paradigm to boutique law firms; tied part of our corporate bonus to company DEI initiatives. Not sure why anyone uses FF anymore. We barely do any development on it. You basically just sit here and collect between 150-300k depending on your level as long as you can stomach the bullshit.
- gspetr 3y ago
  I really doubt there are any Stalinists at Mozilla. My 85 y/o grandpa who's a communist's communist calls the modern DEI left "Trotskyists to a fault": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism He would dismiss any whiff of intersectionality as "dividing the working class in the interests of bourgeoisie."

by jorvi 3y ago

hersko 3y ago

Is Microsoft really better? Remember this[1] bizarre intro during Microsoft Ignite? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBRtucXGeNQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBRtucXGeNQ

titanomachy 3y ago
The "land acknowledgement" part is somewhat common in the Pacific Northwest. The "stating my appearance, dress, and race" is just bizarre. My most charitable interpretation is that they're trying to help visually impaired people to imagine what the speakers look like. Perhaps there are visually impaired users here who could comment on whether that's something they'd find helpful?
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  You can always do described video, so this is just awkward and sloppy.
faeriechangling 3y ago
It's cringy, but it's harmless.

renegade-otter 3y ago

Or perhaps it's Google's hiring process - they are so obsessed with Leetcode-style interviews, they do not vet for the actual fit.

skinkestek 3y ago
If it was just leetcode I think they would have gotten someone who was politically incorrect enough to point it out.
- pantalaimon 3y ago
  Like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%27s_Ideological_Echo_Chamber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%27s_Ideological_Echo_Ch...
  - skinkestek 3y ago
    Yes. That was 2017. I am sure the response to that case made smart people avoid sticking their necks out. For me it probably was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I was in the hiring pipeline at that point and while I doubt that they would have ended up hiring me anyway, I think my absolute lack of enthusiasm might have simplified that decision.
    - dekhn 3y ago
      It was a dark time. It generated so much internal controversy (many googlers agreed with Damore) that Sundar had to cut his vacation short, and an interest group managed to get the "company-wide chat" about it cancelled because they said they were at risk of physical harm. memegen and plus were a mess for months. People argued (as they do here) about the semantics of what he said, and what his underlying thinking about women was, whether "the science" was valid, etc. People saying smart things would get yelled down, and people saying dumb things would get upvotes. And vice versa. You probably made the right choice. Google had already been in decline at that point, but it was clear that Sundar was no leader, just somebody Larry Page appointed to maintain the peace between his lieutenants so the engine could keep printing money.
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    I honestly think that incident helped make the type of people who would have the nerve to stick their neck out and say "This is racist" avoid Google like the plague. Sundar absolutely had to fire Damore because he came out with the arguments like that women are too neurotic for high stress jobs. The thing is even Damore's more reasonable points were ignored and Google's ideological echo chamber only strengthened.

mozempthrowaway 3y ago

I’d imagine Google’s culture is more Mao-ist public shaming. Here at Mozilla, we like Stalin. Go against the orthodoxy? You’re disappeared and killed quickly. We have hour long pronoun training videos for onboarding; have spent millions on DEI consultants from things like Paradigm to boutique law firms; tied part of our corporate bonus to company DEI initiatives. Not sure why anyone uses FF anymore. We barely do any development on it. You basically just sit here and collect between 150-300k depending on your level as long as you can stomach the bullshit.

gspetr 3y ago
I really doubt there are any Stalinists at Mozilla. My 85 y/o grandpa who's a communist's communist calls the modern DEI left "Trotskyists to a fault": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism He would dismiss any whiff of intersectionality as "dividing the working class in the interests of bourgeoisie."